His song on your fall mix is awesome.

I guess I should check Ray LaMontagne out. I've heard him praised enough, but just never felt compelled to do so. Based on what I'd read, I'd kind of mentally compared him to Nicolai Dunger, who while I like him alot, I'd throw him in the style camp. He's a favorite among current artists, but its really due to the Van Morrison sound, the comfort/soothing quality of his voice, etc. When you get down to it, his lyrics aren't very special which I guess shouldn't be a huge surprise given English isn't his primary language. I take it LaMontagne is a better writer.

I'll give another listen to Iron & Wine again, paying more attention to the lyrics.

And maybe I shold have emphasized that I was talking about lyrics more than songs in general. I'm assuming Todd is really talking about the ability to craft a nice melody as he is writing good lyrics when he recommends all those pop guys?

And as far as whether its a "today's music" issue or not, I guess I base that 3 things:

(1) the lack of any real heavyweight writers of a Dylan, Van Zandt, Davies, etc quality
(2) the current/recent predominance of styles in which writing takes a second chair to attitude and playing (eg all the 2nd wave postpunk + strokes style stuff)
(3) all the indie folk guys who do a good job achieving the "old timey" sound but whose lyrics aren't that special.

I think the writing on "Creek Drank..." is excellent.

Our ole' pal Ike crafts some wicked tunes as well.

how about NO

I guess I don't pay as much attention to his lyrics because of his tendency to mumble. I'll relisten.

Jason Molina

But to get away from the "J"s...I like Dave Berman.

if you're gonna say vanderslice, then i think the guy from the mountain goats deserves mentioning too

i also agree with josh rouse and a bunch of the other guys/gals mentioned above

Josh Rouse? What I've heard would put him closer to Donovan than to Dylan.

Agreed. I like Josh Rouse, but in doses. Alot of it seems a little too light.

Jason Ringenberg

David Bazan.

Stuart Murdoch.

That's not a bad list to answer Billy G's question.

I take it Billy's looking for singer/songwriterly types, troubadors with self-searching lyrics and acoustic guitars and harmonica neck braces and all that. So we can eliminate some great young songwriters who ply their trade in a pop band context -

(ie:
Tim Rogers
E.
Britt Daniel
Jim James
AC Newman
Bill Whitten
Dom Mariani
Greg Cartwright
Tim Armstrong
Frank Black
Jeff Whalen
Ted Leo
Mike Cooley
Herman Jolly
Serge and Dave Bielanko
Mickey Melchiondo and Aaron Freeman
Steve Taglierre)

- and stick with the more rootsy variety. So how about:

Bobby Bare Jr.
Bob Forrest
Fred Eaglesmith
Chris Mills
Paul Melancon
Scott Miller
Tim Easton
Jim White
Neko Case
Veda Hille
Luke Doucet
Steve Wynn
Oh Susanna (Suzie Ungerleider)
Brent Best
Mark Linkous
Richard Buckner
Mark Caputo

No that's not really the point. I'm not looking for a laundry list of singer/songwriters people like. In fact, I think too often people list acoustic players just assuming they fit the bill without really thinking about whether they have much of a gift with the english language or not.

It could be any genre. When I think of the best songwriters of the last 25 years, two of the first names that pop in my head are Elvis Costello and Morrissey. That said, I don't think powerpop is a genre filled with great lyricists.

Tweedy is a guy who clearly has the gift. There is some incredible writing on Being There -- Red-Eyed & Blue comes immediately to mind but there are many others on that album -- but I don't think he's come near that level since in terms of lyrics. I can't think of many others who really impress me as songwriters even though I like a lot of the artists that have been mentioned.

Maybe I'm just not paying attention enough, but some guys just demand attention and I don't think there's many that fit that bill currently. As a sidenote, spoon should bring back his posting of good song lyrics...those were his best contributions to the board imo.

richard buckner
mark linkous
tim easton
jay farrar
joe pisapia
gillian welch
ron sexsmith
damien jurado
peter bruntnell
jim white
rufus wainwright
mark lanegan


Radcliffe wrote:


Whoa - Thanks for the shout out sir

I almost agree with that, although I often ponder what makes a lyric work in the context of a pop song (and I include the work of Dylan, Costello, Morrissey, etal in my definition of a pop song). Generally, we seem to live in an era that frowns upon simplicity, but simplicity and economy are the strengths of a great pop song (and as any writer will tell you, simplicity is the hardest trick to master). Take something like Sinatra's "The Wee Small Hours Of The Morning". Nobody's gonna get that lyric mixed up with the swaggering vocabulary of a typical Costello song, and yet it nails a moment and a mood with absolute perfection. And I think some of the great power pop songwriters operate in that same way. Cheap Trick's "Surrender", for example - that might not be what you're looking for as a great song, but hell yeh it's a great song, both melodically and lyrically.

Likewise, a guy like Costello (or a good, younger lyricist like Eef Barzalay of Clem Snide) can write witty songs that make me pay attention, but not much that makes me feel. Modern songwriters I appreciate - like Ike Reilly, Bob Forrest, Jim White, Ted Leo, Tim Easton, etc. - are able to communicate complex emotions in very few lines or images. I've always thought the opening lines to Marah's "East" (to wit: "This evening the pigeons turn into bars of gold in the sun's last light") is one of the most striking images of melancholy I've ever heard/read, and yet the Bielanko brothers are never really considered as singer/songwriters because they operate in a group context.

So I dunno. A great song lies at the junction where a great melody, a great performance, and great lyrics meet. And there seems to be a LOT of those out there, so somebody's gotta be writing them.

The hat-trick of songwriting.

Thanks Radcliffe for the response...I can see what you're getting at. I don't disagree but at the same time I wish there were more writers like Costello and Barzelay out there. I'd forgotten about Eef Barzelay perhaps because I've been disappointed with the last couple of Clem Snide albums.

M. Ward
Jim James
John Darnielle (Mountain Goats)
David Berman (Silver Jews)
Ben Gibbard (that's right, I said he was good)
Jim White

i like caputo's list.

Sam Prekop
Luke Temple
Andrew Bird
Andrew Morgan
David Mead

Andrew Bird
(Colin Meloy) The Decemberists
(E) Eels
(Craig Finn) The Hold Steady
(Sam Beam) Iron & Wine
(David Berman) Silver Jews

I think Will Johnson of Centro-matic is a fine songwriter.

Grant Lee Phillips has touched greatness a few times, but can be spotty.

I've always dug Paul Kelly - not much artifice there, and some great lyrics as well. I guess he's getting old.

Ron Sexsmith is swell.

I like just about everything Mark Eitzel has done except West and the Candass.

and by the way - there aren't any songwriters like Dylan.

yes.

cass mccombs
maximilian hecker
jens lekman