No, I was just wondering if you were serious. Sports are easily defined where as art is not. There is no worldwide definition of art. Everyone has a different belief of what it is, which makes it virtually impossible to find an exact and universal manner of defining it.

That's where my smartassitude came into play. I'll give you credit for taking something someone else created and creating a new package for it, yeah. I'll give you credit for the unique rearrangement of samples to make new works. I'll give Andy Warhol credit for giving a new portrayal to an existing soup can.

I don't however, give credit for those paint-by-number sets, even though it probably takes a certain degree of talent to pull it off convincingly. Now if you take the paint-by-number set and rearrange the number-to-color designations, I can give you credit for the new arrangement, but not necessarily the subject matter.

It was more or less a joke, because of what Jewels said. People will argue the definition of a sport to the death.

I agree with that, but how can you apply this to the original discussion? Cage did something original that we have not spoken of anyone else attempting before. If it had been done before this would be a valid argument, and sure his reputation contributed to the popularity of this particular piece, but how does a paint by number relate to 4'33? It doesn't. He was the first to do a piece like this and it's not like he was replicating an already popular performance idea.

Intent, eh? I think it's only part of the whole package. Perception also has a hand. I think that if you change the composer, the entire piece changes meaning. Since it's John Cage, avant-garde composer, it must be elevated on a pedestal. But if the following people had composed the exact same piece prior to Cage, it would likely be categorized not as art but as…

Victor Borge: a joke immortalized on VHS.
Marcel Marceau: not the least bit surprising.
Scott Stapp: pretentious crap from a hypocritical rock star, but better than Creed.
Brian Wilson: dude has flipped his lid…again
Joan Rivers: a blessing.

However, if some nameless housewife in New Mexico had painted a bunch of flowers that remind you of vaginas before Georgia O'Keeffe, or a homeless guy had created a painting that looked exactly like Van Gogh's "Night Cafe" before the one-eared wonder, I doubt we would be debating the merit of those works. "4'33" seems to revolve more about the judgement of the composer than of the composition.

I don't know. Fuck, i'm hungry

That goes back to this post:


The paint-by-number was in response to Jewels' question about samples and rap music and where I draw the line on those sorts of creations.



Moi aussi.