and, of course, it comes back to the pixies...

i'm just glad the fucking wrens weren't around in 1990 or this thread'd extend another couple pages.

they were. there's a lost album called The Pre-Meadowlands that I'm having included on this poll in place of "other".

didn't really think i'd be in the majority on violator. PE seems like more of a "critics darling".

Ice Cube

oh right, this was around time of the silver demo demos, right?

hmm...either that or the silver demo demo demos. I forget

peter murphy-deep
i must say that this wasn't a particularly strong year though i also still enjoy social d and ween.

oh yeah.

I change my vote to this! I can't keep up with years. Andrew Wood made a junkie album that sounds nothing at all like a junkie album. With some guys from Pearl Jam, no less. People who haven't heard this and have even the smallest appreesh for bubblegum glam-metal need to come correct.

Bossanova is terrible.

I'm not falling for it, sissy boy.

I heard that the Pixies influenced Kurt Cobain, but probably only in that they made him want to off himself.

For shame.

by beard was clearly influenced by kenny loggins.

have you told the princess about your boyfriend?


she is a jealous gal, ya know.

oh where is my messina?

somebody could have some fun photoshopping us into that L/M pic, especially if I posted an old pic of myself with long hair.


and we are all looking for our messina, haq, though my life's work is to find my oates.

seriously - kenny already looks like me. or vice versa.

if it's not too much trouble, would somebody please post a link to this notorious ILM thread?

In rock, I'll go Chills in LP and single ( Heavenly Pop Hit). Being Boring was a remarkable single as well.

Billy, just curious, when do you consider the point New Order went downhill?

I get the appeal of Depeche Mode and The Cure as cult acts. That they became stadium acts remains a bit of a head scratcher. I guess I wsn't paying attention but did these 2 groups get huge everywhere at the same time or did they first blow up in L.A. due to KROQ exposure and then it sort of spread?

2 cents of a non-expert: As one who gravitates toward minimalist and the catchy, the early DM was right up my alley. Not the biggest Cure fan but recently heard their deluxe edition 1st album and found it kind of fun too especially compared to some of their other early albums.

I don't know that New Order ever went seriously downhill. I just think their whole sound is very stuck in the 1980's. Same with Depeche Mode. Not talking about newer material by them which I haven't heard and really don't have any desire to hear. I liked 'em enough both and owned all their cds when I was in college but I haven't had any desire to listen to any of them since the early 1990's. I think most "synth" (for the lack of a better description) bands from the 1980's sound very dated today.

I used to be a huge Cure fan. I would still call myself a fan although certainly not as much as in the mid to late 1980's when they would have been a top five band for me. My point there was just that I thought few long time fans would list Disintregration as their best album. That despite being a very good album, it was more of a breakthrough album than necessarily their best.

Here's a link to the ILM thread. Its really not all that interesting and unless I don't recognize some names I don't know what Bee's talking about regarding lots of Obners. I do come off as more of a cocky bastard than I intended when I re-read my post. I suppose that's always the danger of just posting quick abbreviated thoughts.

np: mix for a friend

hey Billy, wouldnt you say that the moment when Depeche Mode and the Cure went Arena was probly like '89-'90? Maybe I'm just just thinking about my own history because I too did a brief stint as a fan of both bands but I can't really remember The Cure playing The Omni until Disentegration or Depeche Mode playing Lakewood until Violator --those were the two big "arena rock" venues down here at the time.

Thanks for the link. I read the ILM thread & the New Order thread link off it. New Order Technique is a good example of an album where you have both the U.S./UK variable combined with the age of the listener variable. First the U.S./UK difference: Acclaimed, which I consider UK oriented, has Technique #284 all-time (very high) and #5 of the year. Conversely, Technique is not among the top 40 in the U.S. oriented 1989 Pazz & Jop list. In other words, total disconnect. The Stone Roses is even more extreme: Not in the Voice top 40 at all; #1 of the year & #57 all-time Acclaimed.

Then you get the comments along the lines of ‘Technique was the NO album when I was really getting into rock…’ while to a little older crowd Technique comes along at a time when they might be a little tired of NO. They were coming off Substance too which would be hard for any regular LP to stand out against. The albums in the thread list are so far into the artists’ careers it’s basically the same thing as with the NO.

I didn’t find Billy’s comments inflammatory. FAstnbulbous’ use of the term ‘high school music’ might be offensive to that crowd but he’s really just using the term literally. Got me to thinking about the R.E.M album. Automatic For The People is one which I noticed showing up in Brit mags (after the fact) referenced more than once as greatness. I wasn’t exactly subscribing to NME and the like at the time so I don’t know the reception it got there when new. Sure enough, it’s super high in the Acclaimed list. It’s not a Britsih band or part of some new movement there, so that is one where I can’t think of an obvious explanation for their great love. Just an anomaly? Personally I think it’s a pretty decent effort at that stage of their career. The whole thing feels sort of Valiumy, and I can see how Everybody Hurts could grate, but Nightswimming is a beauty. I was sick of their hype at the time but the album holds up I think. Fastnbulbous asked ‘But how could old fans possibly like anything after Document?’ Why not? They just polished up and never really sucked or anything. Their Phase II seemed to me like a more natural progression than U2’s 90s makeover. Pretty respectable second act I’d say.

Yail, The Omni you mention is the Atlanta arena I presume. What is Lakewood.? Arena? I am thinking both Cure and DM got to arena level at the time you mention. But stadium level was maybe L.A. only (in the U.S. I mean)? Even if it was just Southern California, filling a stadium was pretty astounding when you think about it. It seems logical with a group like Van Halen (charismatic frontman + a guitar hero) . I know Robert Smith was a charismatic anti-star but who was the draw in Depeche to get it to that level? How did they do it? And if anybody knows/remembers, how big did The Smiths get in the U.S. venue-wise?

Obviously. Their last two albums don't sound "80's" at all. And other than that, their only non-80's album was Republic, and that was hardly a true New Order album anyway (or so I've heard), so they're basically an 80's band.

maybe you don't get the point. Republic regardless of when it was recorded has a very "80's" sound. To me, new order and depeche mode are the the musical equivalent of paisley shirts and broaches.

I do get the point. I completely agree with you regarding Depeche Mode. Their is an unarguable connection between synthpop and 80's, given that that is the era of its birth, therefore any synthpop is going to sound 80's (whether or not that is good or bad is outside the scope of this argument). If something was recorded in 91, 92, or 93 (I.E. Republic), it's barely out of the 80's, so it's too early to be "retro", and one album does not justify the "stuck" label -- it's almost like a posthumous release of a dead artist. And as to how much it sounds 80's is arguable -- I personally found it quite evolved from their previous albums. New Order effectively disbanded at that point, and recently reformed, and their new albums sound "modern", especially regarding production. So when you say "other than their new stuff", you are basically saying that an 80's band sounds 80's -- not much of a statement.

Depeche Mode, on the other hand, never disbanded -- they just started taking longer between albums. And they definitely "settled" (naysayers would say "stagnated") on a sound, although evolving within their chosen niche. So your statement towards them definitely applies.