No, not mine, but my sister's. Just thought I'd put some feelers out there to those folks who *have* gone through a divorce (I know, most of you are so young, you aren't close to marriage yet). It's hard watching this happen from a distance-- she's in Georgia, I'm in Oregon. She told me about it all on Christmas morning, when we have our usual family call to thank everyone for gifts. We both ended up crying on the phone. It's not just her, but her three kids too.

Anyhow, I've been trying to be supportive and encouraging without saying anything negative about her soon to be ex, but it's so damn hard. The guy is a loser, and has always been a loser. I think she knows that to a certain degree, and I know the rest of my family have always felt that way about him. She's got a great network of support at home with friends from church, work and other walks of life, but I know in my heart, if she had her way, she'd resolve this whole thing and keep the family together, which means staying with the cretin. Anyhow, she's hired a lawyer (the best in the county), and they've got a preliminary hearing on the 26th to try and get her husband out of the house for good... yes, he's been living there this whole time. Things are going to get nasty, because her husband is playing nasty and unfortunately is using the kids as a way to get to her (he apparently took my 2 nephews to his lawyer and had them sign a paper saying they wanted to live with him, without explaining what all that means).

For any of you who have gone through or witnessed such an acrimonious split, what would be the best advice you could give me on how to be supportive of her? Just being there? Calling her every couple of days? Abstaining from offering unsolicited advice?

Been there in spades. Being available to listen day or night is the most valuable thing you can do. Other than that (and I know it sounds like very little), tread very lightly.

Thanks, billy and tentoze... yeah, it's hard calling her with other things to chat about. I probably should have prefaced all of this with the fact that this particular sister and I haven't been the closest in recent years. More out of laziness and lack of similar lifestyles/interests than anything, not because we don't care or love each other. I think it'd be different if I was living in Georgia and could make an appearance instead of just calling all the time. I hope when I head back for a brief appearance in March, I'll have some time to spend with her doing something else aside from talking about the divorce.

I did send her a text message this morning, and just told her to call me if she needed anything and sent her my love.

Unless the nephews are 18, that document won't mean crap. My best advice would be to do everything as quickly as possible and move on. It took my parents more than 3 years to finalize their split. Makes it harder on everyone except the lawyers.

Having been through one myself I can say that Billy's advice is very good.

Mine was pretty amicable to an extent. My attorney was highly recommended but proved to be a fucking joke in negotiations(turned out her and my ex's attorney were tennis buddies) and I ended up screwed over to this day in some areas(for instance my ex makes 40k more then me but I no longer get child support and he gets to claim the son at tax time).

This is truly a crappy situation to be in and I feel for your sister. Offering the right things to say can be tough. Just be there for her as an ear, that's going to be what she needs the most right now.

And they need to get a therapist/mediator involved on the kid's behalf so they can't be further manipulated by the father. She does need to fight a little dirty on that end if he already started to do so.

Is that true, Billz? The oldest child is 13 (will be 14 in March) and has pretty much decided he does want to live with his dad. The other nephew is 11, and after having it explained to him, he went with my sister to her lawyer to sign something saying that he didn't understand what he was signing. Yeah, I have no doubt she'll end up with the 11 year old and her 5 year old daughter. I thought at age 12, a kid was allowed to pick where he/she wanted to live... unless of course they prove in court that good ol' Daddy has (a) a drinking problem, (b) anger management issues, and (c) poor judgment when it comes to financial decisions.

Mine too, and this correct.

Try to also show and support to NOT stoop the the husband's level when it comes to the kids. They don't need to be pawns in this game any more than they already are.

Sad that things like this can bring you together with your siblings, but I understand that, too.

I would think it would be pretty easy to argue that the document was signed under duress. If your sister ends up with the house, or a better place to live especially in the same school district, that should get pretty decent weight. Sounds like your sister is much more stable, better income, etc. which means in the eyes of a judge she'd be able to provide a better home--more weight.

I'm sure she's having a much more informed discussion with her attorney.

why are the kids allowed to choose who they want to live with? that decision should depend on what is in the best interests of the children and decided by adults. if you have to go to mediation to determine that, then that's where you go.

kids in this position are in no way capable of making a rational decision--they're pissed and hurt and angry and traumatized. how can a 12 year old function in that arena? he'd blow off school and eat candy all day too if that was left up to him.

parents can easily fall into using their kids as pawns to get back at each other. they are so full of crap.

when we split, i knew that the best place for my kids was living in the same house and in their same rooms that they had lived almost all of their lives. the ex had always been the stay at home mom so it made sense that they be with her on a regular basis.

i hated it. it's been three years and there are still constant moments of complete sadness and missing them. i see them throughout the week and they stay over one night a weekend during school.

in terms of your sister, listening is really the best you can do. my sisters were there for me all the way even when i'm sure i ranted on the same old stuff over and over again. yeah, and tread lightly on the trashing her ex stuff. and never do it around the kids.

the bottom line is that from here on out the kids should be the first priority in every decision made but in all likelihood it may not work out that way.

it's funny you mention this. One of my best friends is getting divorced (or about to, separated now) right now. It's really hard, she is only 27. It's also really hard on me too bc he basically just left her. She was a MESS for months. She is getting better now but between her and my husband I feel like I have someone to take care of every night of the week!

agreed. my sister and i, at 5 and 9, were used as pawns for months. and it didn't get much better once things were finalized.

both of my parents talked so much shit on the other during the whole fiasco that i now dislike both of them for telling me those things as much as for what those things are. like, what am i supposed to do with that information at 9?

i know this is a thread for those who've been through it as the divorcees, but i just thought i'd throw in my two cents. carry on.

Excellent advice, Jen. I will surely let her know how I feel about that, and she should already have some idea anyway, since she and my oldest sister are also kids of a divorce (my dad is not their biological dad, but was their true father in every sense of the word).



I know. It makes me feel bad for all the times I wasn't there for her before. I do feel guilty about that. I hope this will allow me to rekindle our relationship and continue on in a healthy way.



But see, you're a rational, caring parent, Laura. Think of the absolute worst stereotype you've ever heard about the "macho southern man" or the "abusive redneck," and you've got my brother-in-law in a nutshell. Add to that that he's not taking his anti-depressant medication and he's still pressuring my sister for nightly sex, and you'll get a better idea. He doesn't give a shit about the kids. He just wants to hurt my sister. He just wants CONTROL.

I would hope that whichever judge hears the case would talk with the kids individually or as a group, because I know they're feeling the pressure.

One thing I can say is that I know for a fact my sister will never say anything negative against her husband to the kids. I truly believe that, because if you ever met my sister, you'd know that the woman doesn't have a mean bone in her body. Will she relent in her fight? No way, but she will never say anything that would make the kids feel like they can't love/trust their father. The RBIL (redneck brother in law)... I wouldn't put anything past him. Just by taking the kids to his lawyer on the sly to pressure them to sign a document they didn't understand is slimy enough.

You obviously don't have a brother. It would be bats and ski masks time if she were my sister.

Dunno how serious this situation is, but she should leave, she should take the kids, and she should get the authorities involved, even if she doesn't want the kids to think bad of dad.

I may be overreacting, but I am listening to my boss explain a capital murder verdict to an abused/murdered wife's family.

No, it's good to offer up your opinion, Z. I don't have a particularly close relationship with my niece and nephews just due to geographical location, but it's good to know this sort of thing so I can censor myself when I am around them.

As I understand it, this is a variable that, depending on a child's age, some judges may take into consideration. I know that in Florida, there are no statutes for such things, and I'd be surprised if any state had hard and fast written rules.

From my experience, and those of others I know who have gone through it, such an action could even very well BACKFIRE on the party who actively involves a minor child in that way. Judges almost always get VERY shitty when either or both parties try to drag the kids into the fight in a direct manner. And I'd be very wary of a lawyer who would encourage that type of action, particularly if I was paying him/her to represent my best interests. That tactic isn't something yr sister needs to be very fearful of, and certainly should avoid being sucked into.

Nah, no brothers, but I'll tell ya.... when talking about all this stuff with my husband, he's definitely come up with a few zingers that if said to the RBIL, would totally crush his already fragile ego. Yes, I do worry about physical harm, Dave. Just based on how crazy he's gotten with this whole thing, I worry that he might not only try to harm my sister and her kids, but also my parents and my oldest sister.

Billz is right in that she's the one with the financial/parental stability-- that can and will be easily proved. She can't keep the house on her current income, but I'm sure since the kids all go to the schools in the area she lives in, that the judge would probably award her sole custody. I just don't know about the eldest child though... whether it's out of fear or not, he totally idolizes that man, and is turning into Redneck Jr. at 13.

Dana,if you are worried, you should tell her so, and tell your parents. There are people who can help, but only if they KNOW. Better to overreact than underreact. I don't know the situation, but it sounds like it could get much worse before it gets better.

Dana, I don't have much to add. I don't understand how marraiges like this last this long.
I hope Colin reads all this, although not much of it applies to him. At least he doesn't have kids to divide. That would be the most painful thing for me, to put them thru that kind of trauma. Putting the kids in the middle of it just sucks.

[quote="Senator LooGAR, TX Monger"}Dana,if you are worried, you should tell her so, and tell your parents. There are people who can help, but only if they KNOW. Better to overreact than underreact.[/quote]

completely agree. you and your family should communicate about all of this stuff. it's not a time for secrets if things are this potentially dangerous.

and the 13 year old adores him cuz he's his dad. good dad, bad dad--his relationship with his dad is very different than with his mom.

I can't really add anything here except to say that I was around the same age as the oldest child in this situation at the time my parents finally divorced.
I don't know about state rules, but my mom got the house and custody of me and all of my siblings. My dad had to pay support on my brother and I, but it was limited. With my brother having Cystic Fibrosis, the state covered his medical cost until last year.
None of us really wanted to live with my dad and future stepmom along with our illegitimate half brother. They lived outside of town in a trailer, we lived within walking distance of most of the schools.
My parents divorce was pretty amicable, they only fought once about how much support we got and renegotiated it. They had essentially been separated since I was 12, and separated once when I was 7 at the time my illegitimate half brother was born. They stayed married when my brother was born and through to the point they knew what was making him sick.
My mom's siblings weren't too fond of my dad after they found out he was cheating on her, but I never really heard them say anything awful about him.
Hopefully her kids wil end up making the right choice and asking to live with their mom instead.

I don't know about this. If you really think you have REASON to be worried about their safety, don't hold back. Just make sure you're basing it on more than he's a jerk and he's acting like one. Your sister's better off without this guy, but don't forget that this is probably difficult on him too. Not suggesting that you feel any pity for him, but people do stupid things when they are emotional and it doesn't mean that they are capable of physical harm.

If you overreact, you are going to make things a lot harder on your sister. Not saying not to err on the side of being safe but make sure you have at least some real basis for your concern before playing that card.

I was assuming she had a basis for concern.

And as I said before, I just got to hear the details of a guy who got drunk and dragged his wife outta bed and stabbed 28 times in front of their kids.

Fucker's gonna get death though, not to hijack this into that death penalty phase.

i just think in terms of supporting your sister it's important that everyone be on the same page. it's more a matter of keeping your ears open than thinking there's no cause for concern.

everyone's emotions and nerves are running high. this is such a big life hard thing.