Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:55 pm 
Offline
British Press Hype
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: cincinnati, OHIO
Yeah, the man should sink or swim on being a novelist.

And having misrepresented the recovery process is pretty reckless and irresponsible, you know, as a human being.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:02 pm 
Offline
A True Aristocrat of Freedom

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 am
Posts: 22121
Location: a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot
oldbullee Wrote:
He didn't embellish. He lied. There's a big difference between not going to jail and going to jail. Somebody dying and somebody committing suicide. Having dental work done or having dental work done with no novacaine. And there is much more than that. I don't care because I never read the book and I never will. Fact is all addicts are con-artists, and this dude still is. If his book was originally printed as fiction, it would have never made Oprah's book club and never made him the money it did.


DING

oldbullee Wrote:
Also fully recovery means being honest about who you were as an addict. That's one of the basic principles of rehab.


DING
I have a very different take on dudes like this and Elizabeth Wurtzel and whoever else: REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS.

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:05 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 3376
Location: Charlotte, NC
I read and fucking LOVED it. As far I'm concerned, anything that can get me to read an entire book is cool with me, even if it is not entirly true.

And sorry, but FUCK Oprah! Anybody that thinks shs doesn't have a staff of people that pick these books for her is nuts. Somebody on said staff read the book, thought it was good (cause it is), and recommended it her.

Her asking the editor or whoever yesterday how when they read the book it didn't raise some red flags...How about when YOU read the book? If it was so hard to believe then why don't YOU go and do some fact checking. Oh, sorry, your too busy giving away fucking iPods to housewives so they can listen to the Josh Groban album. GET OVER YOURSELF! Out yourself on ANOTHER cover of your magazine.

Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:23 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:31 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 10827
Location: Nashville
I think this whole thing is hilarious. More power to the guy for making a couple of million and duping the whole Oprah audience (even though he's been duping people for about 3 years now, right?).
I haven't read the book, but he DID go to rehab, he just lied to sell more books, right?
I guess I would have a problem with this if it were someone else and it was under different circumstances.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:33 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 10237
Location: Hill
fuse Wrote:
The Mayor said it best. It's interesting that so many publishers turned it down as a "novel" and that by slapping "memoir" on it, it got picked up and plugged like crazy. And publishers don't give a shit about fact-checking stuff like this.


I think this is the crux of it. I know lots of people loved this, but from the portions I've skimmed, if I thought it was a novel I would have laughed at the stupid posturing and the stock characters (more on this in some slate article) and put it down. People's lives WERE very much affected by the book. Frey became a posterboy for recovering addicts everywhere, and his book gave them hope because they thought it was true. They thought it was true because he lied about his life. And for those of you who haven't read up on this and think he "embellished," here are the embellishments: he spent zero nights in jail in real life, 3 months in jail in the book (and the sequel, where he met a beefy prisoner named porterhouse who cried while james read him novels, and where a sheriff put a hit out on him). He was never caught with crack in real life, was in the book. Never investigated by the FBI. Never arrested in two of the states where he cites convictions. Was not with the girl from his school on the night she tragically died - was not even particularly close to her. Was not an outcast, was a fratboy.

Not that I have it out for the guy particularly, but this is not the sort of thing people typically do in their autobiographies.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:33 pm 
Offline
Troubador
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:23 pm
Posts: 3605
Location: Far South of Hell
Elvis Fu Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?


Yes. Depends how you read it and it serves you.

I thought about this comparison.

hyperbole, metaphorical, contradictory, misrepresentative, self-serving, warts and all

I never take things I read at face value. This applies more and more as I grow older. To me it's always "Reader Beware."


Last edited by seafoam on Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:34 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 3376
Location: Charlotte, NC
Elvis Fu Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought up. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?


I have never read the bible, so no I wouldn't say the same thing about it. I wouldn't say anything about the bible. It's not something I'm interested in.

I am however interested in this book. I like the message of the book. The subject matter hits close to home in some respect.

You can bag on the reasons why I like it, and why I don't give a shit about if every single detail in the book is true. Whatever. I however don't bag on people who believe in things like the Bible. Because it's their perogative if they want to.

I also give the guy props for going back on her show when he knew she was going to try and tear him apart.

Edit: Have you even read the book?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:37 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
My whole feeling is that this is just some crumbs of Pop Culture that are interesting to watch, even if it is schadenfreude. Personally, I hold the publisher more accountable than Frey, who seems to be a naive opportunist in the whole thing.

If I remember correctly, TSG stated in their expose that Frey pitched the book as a novel, but the publisher would only take it as a non-fiction memoir. Instead of polishing up his prose, he chose to take the cash and go with what he had in hand.

I'm sure he never imagined the notoriety the book has garnered, and I'm sure it was pretty damn hard to admit it was fabricated. The tendency to dig your claws in and hold on for the bumpy ride is perfectly natural, but even now, after he's been exposed as a liar, he still hides behind the "that's how I remember it" curtain. As previously stated, if he truly is a recovering addict, this doesn't seem like a sincere desire for truth and resolution.

Since he created this story from his imagination rather than actual occurences, there is a pretty big discrepancy between this book and non-fiction. It's not embellishment or license. Think about it. Wouldn't it be more amazing if Dorothy & Toto had actually been whisked away to a magical land in a Kansas tornado, rather than knowing up front it's complete fiction?

Frey took the Truth Is Stranger Than Fiction card and ran with it. Unfortunately for him, TSG uncovered the rest of the deck.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:39 pm 
Offline
A True Aristocrat of Freedom

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 am
Posts: 22121
Location: a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot
HaqDiesel Wrote:
fuse Wrote:
The Mayor said it best. It's interesting that so many publishers turned it down as a "novel" and that by slapping "memoir" on it, it got picked up and plugged like crazy. And publishers don't give a shit about fact-checking stuff like this.


I think this is the crux of it. I know lots of people loved this, but from the portions I've skimmed, if I thought it was a novel I would have laughed at the stupid posturing and the stock characters (more on this in some slate article) and put it down. People's lives WERE very much affected by the book. Frey became a posterboy for recovering addicts everywhere, and his book gave them hope because they thought it was true. They thought it was true because he lied about his life. And for those of you who haven't read up on this and think he "embellished," here are the embellishments: he spent zero nights in jail in real life, 3 months in jail in the book (and the sequel, where he met a beefy prisoner named porterhouse who cried while james read him novels, and where a sheriff put a hit out on him). He was never caught with crack in real life, was in the book. Never investigated by the FBI. Never arrested in two of the states where he cites convictions. Was not with the girl from his school on the night she tragically died - was not even particularly close to her. Was not an outcast, was a fratboy.

Not that I have it out for the guy particularly, but this is not the sort of thing people typically do in their autobiographies.


Well said, Haq. Seemed way trite to me.

And Busty -- c'mon, man, I can reccomend you a thousand better books than this ;)

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:39 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 10198
Elvis Fu Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?


actually, i would say the same thing about the bible.
don't take it so litterally, enjoy the message.

_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/fishstick2


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:41 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
I have never read the bible, so no I wouldn't say the same thing about it. I wouldn't say anything about the bible. It's not something I'm interested in.

I am however interested in this book. I like the message of the book. The subject matter hits close to home in some respect.

You can bag on the reasons why I like it, and why I don't give a shit about if every single detail in the book is true. Whatever. I however don't bag on people who believe in things like the Bible. Because it's their perogative if they want to.

I also give the guy props for going back on her show when he knew she was going to try and tear him apart.

Edit: Have you even read the book?


Haven't read a single word outside of those quoted in TSG report. Never had a desire too, either. I don't read any book you can buy in an airport, and generally stick to non-fiction--specifically biographies--or more classic literature anyway.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:42 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
jewels santana Wrote:
Elvis Fu Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?


actually, i would say the same thing about the bible.
don't take it so litterally, enjoy the message.


Either answer is acceptable. I know there seems to be a majority of Bible Haters on this board, so I figured it was a fair gamble. Just checking for consistency was all.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:46 pm 
Offline
Troubador
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:23 pm
Posts: 3605
Location: Far South of Hell
Elvis Fu Wrote:
jewels santana Wrote:
Elvis Fu Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Yeah the guy fucking lied about a couple of things. But the MESSAGE of the book isn't at all effected by the things she brought. So who fucking cares?


Would you say the same thing about The Bible?


actually, i would say the same thing about the bible.
don't take it so litterally, enjoy the message.


Either answer is acceptable. I know there seems to be a majority of Bible Haters on this board, so I figured it was a fair gamble. Just checking for consistency was all.


I think Bible Haters is strong. And, really you think the majority? I don't hate the Bible, I just don't take it literally. I figured most obnertians felt similarly.

Anyway, sorry to derail. Back to topic.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:48 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Okay, maybe not majority, but there are some anti-religious people who foam at the mouth at any mention of Bible or Christianity around these parts.

I was raised Southern Baptist and don't drink any Kool-Aid of any color since about 1996. I'm not a Bible Hater either, though.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:59 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 3376
Location: Charlotte, NC
Senator Top Cat LooGAR Wrote:
And Busty -- c'mon, man, I can reccomend you a thousand better books than this ;)


How can you possibly say that without reading it? I like the book. Sorry it's not about LBJ, or Nixon, or The Stones.

ALL I'M SAYING is that Oprah is guilty of way worse things than this guy will ever be.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:01 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 10198
i honestly don't undesrtand why people hate Oprah.

_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/fishstick2


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:03 pm 
Offline
A True Aristocrat of Freedom

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 am
Posts: 22121
Location: a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Senator Top Cat LooGAR Wrote:
And Busty -- c'mon, man, I can reccomend you a thousand better books than this ;)


How can you possibly say that without reading it? I like the book. Sorry it's not about LBJ, or Nixon, or The Stones.

ALL I'M SAYING is that Oprah is guilty of way worse things than this guy will ever be.


I can say it cos I remember reading a pasage when it came out and thinking "This guy is full of shit"

As for other books, you forgot: The JFK Assassination, HST, The Oakland Raiders, Muhammed Ali, and Hemingway and Tom Wolfe.

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:04 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 10198
Tom Wolfe rules.

_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/fishstick2


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:10 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 9537
Location: North Cack
jewels santana Wrote:
i honestly don't undesrtand why people hate Oprah.

Maybe because they believe she helped bring down Dave Chappelle


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:11 pm 
Offline
British Press Hype
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: cincinnati, OHIO
You know, as consumers we have become so used to the typical narrative arc that it becomes second nature to press any kind of story into that shape to satisfy our expectations. Think of the reality show phenomenon: shoot a bunch of footage, assemble a story in editing. Some folks in my family are noticeable rattled if a film, for example, strays from the narrative convention. This guy lied to cram these pieces into a familiar structure and got dinged for it. Could we go after the people responsible for Survivor and shows of that ilk?

On a related note, I'm sure a bunch of us have read Sedaris' stuff. That qualifies as memoir, yes? I'm fond of a lot of his stuff, but I have no doubt that it is tweaked for effect.

Is this guy getting roasted because of the extent of the lies, the popularity, the Oprah-fication, the references to crime?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:14 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 10198
fuse Wrote:
You know, as consumers we have become so used to the typical narrative arc that it becomes second nature to press any kind of story into that shape to satisfy our expectations. Think of the reality show phenomenon: shoot a bunch of footage, assemble a story in editing. Some folks in my family are noticeable rattled if a film, for example, strays from the narrative convention. This guy lied to cram these pieces into a familiar structure and got dinged for it. Could we go after the people responsible for Survivor and shows of that ilk?

On a related note, I'm sure a bunch of us have read Sedaris' stuff. That qualifies as memoir, yes? I'm fond of a lot of his stuff, but I have no doubt that it is tweaked for effect.

Is this guy getting roasted because of the extent of the lies, the popularity, the Oprah-fication, the references to crime?


he's gettiing roasted because there is all sorts of real govermental stuff we should be caring about, and this is more fun to talk about.

_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/fishstick2


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:16 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 3376
Location: Charlotte, NC
Senator Top Cat LooGAR Wrote:
Busty Rhodes Wrote:
Senator Top Cat LooGAR Wrote:
And Busty -- c'mon, man, I can reccomend you a thousand better books than this ;)


How can you possibly say that without reading it? I like the book. Sorry it's not about LBJ, or Nixon, or The Stones.

ALL I'M SAYING is that Oprah is guilty of way worse things than this guy will ever be.


I can say it cos I remember reading a pasage when it came out and thinking "This guy is full of shit"

As for other books, you forgot: The JFK Assassination, HST, The Oakland Raiders, Muhammed Ali, and Hemingway and Tom Wolfe.


Someday I'll be as smart as you. Why read a book at all if you can get the entire story from a passage?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:17 pm 
Offline
British Press Hype
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: cincinnati, OHIO
jewels santana Wrote:
i honestly don't undesrtand why people hate Oprah.


I'm kinda sickened by her giving away cars and shit to a screaming studio of housewives. This woman holds tremendous power, and yet her show is consistently about celebrity worship, crass consumerism, and the promotion of bullshit self-help gurus who I feel ultimately make us weak, fearful morons.

She seems like a nice lady and I don't begrudge anyone enjoying her; she just gives me the shivers.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:19 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:24 am
Posts: 17359
Location: cogthrobber
Word is the cars had 8-thousand dollar tax bills attached to them and the audience had the choice to ante up or forfeit.

Lame. Not much like tax-free Canadian prize/lottery things.


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Style by Midnight Phoenix & N.Design Studio
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.