yeah look to france, they have more problems restraining that bull in a china shop than you have. the only mode of politics in france is to preserve or enhance socialized medicine, as to retract it is political suicide.

Hmmm. Sounds a lot like us. I do know that there system is rated as "better" than ours, whatever that means, by the UN or the WHO, or someone anyway. I'm pretty sure that their waiting times are lower than in Canada.



Now that really sounds like us.

Exactly. Not challenging the status quo is like blindly walking off a cliff even knowing it's there. We all know Social Security needs rethinking. And Bush has "courage" for taking it on... We all know the healthcare system is broken and needs rethinking. And Clinton was a socialist for having the "courage" to take it on...

How about a healthcare system that promoted prevention? It might actually save money? Of course saving money is so retro, so Japanese that the big government spending Republicans don't understand it how that would be possible.

No.

That's a ridiculous canard laid out by the republican party. The problem is that traditionally health insurance was a benefit offered through one's employment. Now, there is a push by businesses to remove this expense and lay the responsibility on the american worker. Couple this with exploding insurance premiums, and you have a crisis. Many can't afford what it costs to insure their family if their place of employment doesn't offer a discounted plan.

The humane thing to do would be to have some form of govt sponsored health care for all americans.

you know when the cops tell me that i have a right to a court apointed lawyer?
I tell the pigs "NO WAY YOU FUCKING SOCIALIST!!!!"

Furthermore, why should I let the government take MY money to build roads... let private companies build roads and charge money to use them... the inevitable forces of a free market economy will create better roads built more cost effectively.

And anyone who is healthy enough to want a car already has one and so has the resources to pay to drive on these privately owned roads.

yeah! anyone who drives on roads should go back to Russia.

The inevitable forces of the free market economy will create death and destruction!

Im glad we have this then


Its a balance. The right often pushes for privitization. NZ used to be a lot more socialist then it is now though. Everything used to be protected - huge import tariffs (so that companies were forced to open plants here), protected rail system job etc.

There was an article from the Wall Street Journal a few years ago by a columnist whose wife had a stroke while in vacation in London. It was fascinating. And before you dismiss it for being the oft-conservative Journal, he didn't so much make a conclusion but a comparison & contrast between the plusses and minuses of the two systems.

Too bad that meteor already hit your beloved "these colors don't run".

You spend like 90 percent (not exact figure but an example of a really high amount) of your total health care cost in the last 5 years of your life. More people are living longer. There's gonna be a problem unless you start handing out pistols and a bullet to everyone who comes in over the age of 70.

God forbid we try to figure how to keep the old farts healthier so they need less care... and/or figure out lower cost alternatives to the heroic techno carnage that our health care system machinery leaves from our bodies. Yeah, bullets, and Soylent Green, that's the ticket...

I'm with you on preventive medicine. Actually Louisiana is really throwing itself behind preventive medicine and working on "guiding good choices" because we have the only state run charity hospital system in the U.S. DHH is absolutely eating up our budget. We are basically an experiment for what you are proposing. I think there is a future in it as a cost saver but implementing stratagies on preventive medicine is not as easy as saying it, and we're having alot of trouble with just that. Ultimately as it might help the problem, I still don't think it fixes it. We're still looking at continued rising cost in my mind that can be softened by your approach. In reality it's only gonna be fixed after it collapses. But on a whole I really believe we as a society and a nation need to examine the insurance industry.

On a government provided health care system, I have lots of questions and haven't really come to a conclusion. There's no free lunch, and moving it to the gov side presents alot of problems in my mind. Not saying I'm happy with the current system either. On the fence I guess.

I found that WSJ article. It's from Opinion Journal, so no subscription is necessary.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006785

Ok, let's have an objective compare/contrast from a WSL Columnist who has, I can only guess, the healthcare of most professional elite. It would be useful to have a similar compare/contrast by someone (one of 45 million Americans) who has no healthcare at all.

Number one, did you read the article?

Number two, let's throw out all the schmos who choose to not purchase health care.

Numver one: Yes... I read it before you posted it here. I didn't disparage what he said, nor disagree with anything he said. I granted that it was objective. I merely pointed out his context.

Number two: Huh? Any public single-apyer healthcare would allow those who chose to buy supplemental healthcare to do so. Not sure of your point.

Context, young man, context! Always challenge that delightful brain to look for the meta-view!

its not a bad article although it's obvious he doesn't come from a medical background ("scoff! Aspirin? is that it?" - Aspirin thins the blood and is very helpful in clearing an ischaemic stroke)

but the thing is, there's private hospitals too. You can pay out of your arse and have access to private hospitals and miss out on waiting lists if you can afford to, but at least everyone has access to public healthcare regardless of financial situation.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I just thought it was an interesting anecdote.

I don't think the present system is foolproof, but I'm not convinced at all that the government can do a better job.

I hear all the stories about all the people who can't get health insurance because their employer doesn't want to eat the cost or how they can't afford it.

When I quit my full-time job 18 months ago, I was worried about replacing my health coverage or spending loads of dough on COBRA.

In about fifteen minutes, I got almost the same coverage with almost the same available doctors for about the same as I was having sucked out of my paycheck, which was only 40% of the total bill—my employer paid the other 60%. I write out a check for $200 every month, and I'm fine with that.

Sure, my story is anecdotal. And I'm sure there are widows with four kids and a PT Wal-Mart gig that can't afford it, but that is just as anecdotal as my account. There are also thousands of young professionals or recent college graduates who would rather dump $200 a month on wine coolers & strippers rather than some unforseen doctor visit.

I also think that Americans overmedicate and overdiagnose. ADD, chronic fatigue syndrome, DowCorning breast implant diease, fibromyalgia or god knows whatever ailment du jour ends up on 20/20 or the cover of Reader's Digest. But those illnesses are much sexier than simple preventive care, so they get more attention.

it doesn't help that almost every second ad is for some pill or other^

And that cuts both ways. Pill pushing doctors and pill shopping patients.

I don't even know what most of those commercials are for. I'm afraid to ask for one and have it end up making my period more regular or something.

I've lived in the US and the UK so have experienced healthcare on both sides of the pond [US hospitals I would consider as 'for profit', although public hospitals are called 'not-for-profit' here, and socialised medicine in the UK].

I never required hopsitalization until I moved to the UK and then was hopitalized three times and subsequently was diagnosed with a chronic condition. My experience with UK healthcare was exceptional for both emergency and routine visits.

My first UK healthcare experience was having a GYN visit and afterwards was offered free birthcontrol on the spot which blew my mind. Then I broke my ankle in three places and was kept in the hospital for just over a week because they wanted to ensure that I could negotiate the 8 flights of stairs to my flat with a plaster cast on my leg. A US hospital (or my health care provider) would have sent me home quite soon and said 'good luck' so I was quite amazed that they brought in physio-therapists to get me mobile. Annnddd...they take pain management very seriously so I was quite happy most of my visit.

I was also quite impressed with my UK employers. They were kind, understanding and allowed me to stay home close to two months with full pay. Afterwards they sent me to a top sports meds doctor and to a really good private physical therapy center which they paid for. I can't imagine a US employer doing anything like that.

In the US, I've had a lot of run around with doctors and found myself having to do self-diagnosis and such. I hate the way they cut corners to save costs and how they charge insane amounts for certain procedures and medicines. There doesn't seem to be a consistent approach to any of it. I hate the thought that if I lose my job then I will be completely without health care. It is ridiculous how US employers often under-employ folks (offering 30 hour a week positions) so that they don't have to provide benefits. There are some good free clinics but their services are always over extended.

You said socialised and hospitalization. I'm confused.

holy shit i coulda sworn there was an elvis fu post under micelfs that's disappeared