It would be nice, and I think he would be a great pres. but I think he's just a little TOO Liberal.

God bless you, but you reacted, didn't help me understand. That liberal, wealthy, white and privileged democrats quizzed the ex-governor of Vriginia on questions of social policy they differ with him on, does not surprise me nor does it tell me why people hate Hillary because she is a "bitch."

As far as pracitce vs. preaching... I work on daily basis with underserved and impoverished populations. I work, probably with less than all the energy and effectiveness I could, for social justice. This is what I care about. This is what I preach, so I don't understand your comment.

We've got a "Re-elect Hillary for Senate" signs up in the front window... and we are in CA.

As far as Joe... don't you hate it when he turns his head and you see the empty superstructure of the hair-plug invention that rests on his head. Wrong to be so superficial, but that hair could never be elected president.

People hate Hillary because it is convenient. Yep, its easy to say that she is an opinionated woman, and therefore people won't like her. It's even easier to recognize that this tactic will work, and she will lose. Close, like Kerry, but lose nonetheless. Yep, she would be quite comfortable amongst old "Mainline Republicans," cos that's how she was raised. But the same people that don't like her don't like Bill; consider Bill liberal. And they will use her seeming phoniness and all her contradictions against her like a blunt tool to the back of a skull, and with the same ruthless and gruesome effectiveness.

Oh, and its social issues like this, and the inability to bend on them, will keep dooming our nationwide electoral chances.

Really? I think Obama has a better chance of winning before Hillary, and I echo jewels sentiments, as much as it pains me to say so. I like Hillary, and think she would do an excellent job, but if she's the final Democratic nominee, say hello to another 4 years of Republicans.

There hasn't ben much talk of it, but Gore is positioning himself for another run. I think he'll have some primary success since he has been anti-iraq and pro-environment. Obviously, Hillary is where the money is, though, and that may trump all.

i dont like any of these possibilities (other than obama who won't run). Biden seems ok but he could never win. Gore and Kerry are re-treads who need to hang it up. McCain - i like him, for a republican. The rest - don't know a lot about.

Frist won a repub straw poll recently. If he's on the repub ticket, dems should be salivating.

gimmie Ed Rendell.

I had a nice reasoned response, well, seasoned if not reasoned, and as I was submitting it, Obner bit the dust. Obner housed on Diebold servers....

I think you are right. But "social issues like this" is a time-bound hurdle for success. Reagan campaigned against the anti-gay initiative in CA in the 80's. I would have supported Sevenson over social issues in the 50's and caused Ike's victory twice. I would have supporte FDR on social issues and seen him win four times. The world changed after 911, the world could change after 2006.

It is not a popular perspective (shut up California) but I think someone could appeal to our reason and better selves, our sense of fairness, of a better deal for the working man and woman. Behind some of these suspected "social issues" are principles which are consistent with our American tradition. I think Obama or Cuomo or Clinton I, all had/have the oratory and passion to do this. Clinton II does not.

I think you're right, Harry, though W has not one lick of oratory skill, IMO.

Whoever supports getting our asses past oil, and focuses on getting corps in check will have my vote, if such a person exists. For those reasons alone, I'm already leaning Gore.

harry's post is a great description of sexist insecurity. That's the foundation clearly. I would also emphasize that she has been THE rage radio bogeywoman for so long, a lot of the dislike is reflexive just like the sports radio guys keep everybody pissed off at the coach, quarterback, etc. Hating Hilary or even just gossiping Hilary is a profitable business--look at Dick Morris. Those radio guys have a lot of air time to fill and they need a fall back whipping boy (or even better girl) to fan outrage. If you hear every day somebody getting bitched about, it's easy to hate them and you don't even need a specific reason. So at least among this crowd any positioning in the center probably won't help Hilary much. If she had a 100% social conservative voting record would the haters even notice?

If I didn't have to deal with liberals and all of their undefendable and off base assumptions to get people actually elected, I'd probably love political discussion around these parts.

Understood, and pragmatism is undervalued, no doubt.

The argument I am making for going right into the mouth of the Beast, is not only because I believe it is the righteous choice, but because I believe, truly, thoughfully, analytically believe, that running on Democratic principles, and not carefully in reactive mode to social conservatives... could win. DO NOT run a Kerry campaign. Change the paradigms, control the talking points, set new goals. Be for social justice and against off-shoring our workplaces.

I believe there is a chance Hillary could win, and as the above post suggests... Frist would be a slow high one down the middle of the plate. McCain is borderline senile and would have a "pissed off" moment that would destroy him. The Arkansas Subway ad will not get by Iowa. Who else? George Allen? Santorum? He won't even be re-elected senator. I fear that the repubs will be smart and nominate Romney, in which case it's over. Hillary could not beat him under the best of circumstances.

And come on, wallow in the weak-minded liberal mud with us.... teach what you know so that you learn it twice. Better here than Daily Kos.

I'm always amazed when I hear even slightly left-leaning people say they would vote for McCain. Has anyone seen his voting record?

I don't know about senile, but McCain could pull of a "pissed off" moment. He could easily play it off as passionate. He's about as close to an outsider as we'll get. He's also the only politician to whom I've donated money. He's still got my vote, unless Kinky runs.

Actually in perfect irony-mode, McCain will probably be too-associated with Bush, too loyal, to win the nomination. Bush could be so contaminated by 2007 that McCain's strategic move to demonstrate loyalty will sink him. Doesn't anyone else think this is a riot?

Yeah, actually. His move last weekend certainly damaged his "maverick" status. I mean, can he actually see what with all the shit on his nose?

This is clearly the start of payback time for McCain's support since 2000. But hitching your wagon to Bush when even the Conservatives are questioning his ability seems awfully tone deaf to me.

Russ Feingold would be ideal.

i was a left leaning McCain supporter until i saw his voting record.
he just seems like a cool trustable guy and gives good interview. So publicly he's everything that Bush isn't . . . but then there is the reality.

It doesn't matter to me. He is an American hero has demonstrated a capacity to lead and an inner strength none of us can possibly fathom.

Harry -- Here is an anecdote, and you tell me the message you glean from it:
LBJ voted against something on the order of 45 different Civil Rights Bills, including anti-lynching bills. Then rammed through the Fair Housing Act and The Voting Rights Act...so, passing litmus tests has no meaning for me.

i like mccain.




if you all want, here's mccain's vote record.
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_catego ... d=S0061103

I'm no way questioning his service or ability to lead. It's WHERE he would lead us (based on his voting record) that worries me. We don't share much political ground so while it's honorable that he's served his country his entire adult life, I can't possibly vote for him. And I don't know how anyone else with progressive values could either. Nothing personal, I just put a little more value on positions and record.

Which leads us back to the discussion I was having with harry. And McCain's Bush brown-nosing may contradict this, or it may be just a plot to get elected (remember, your ability to govern is sort of dependent on that ) But, leadership is the ability to make tough and oftentimes unpopular decisions, and I believe someone like McCain will err on the side of what's right and good for America. So, yeah I support him. And, given the right opportunity, would love to work for his campaign.

"Right and good for America" means a lot of different things to different people. I think that's often where McCain (and most Conservatives) and I differ. That's my point.