I understand that as well. I really do. But this is a moderate to conservative country at its core. So, you kinda gotta work with what you got.

Who is your fave among the Dem candidates?

if i had to choose between McCain and Bush it would be a no brainer. But if i had to choose between McCain (who i like) and Kerry (who i didn't like) i would still have to go with Kerry.

Bush has single handedly brought down the Republican party. Liberals should be very grateful to him. He's given them a chance they could not produce on their own. At this point, I would consider voting for McCain or Obama.

Not hitching my horse to anyone yet. First, we don't have a clear idea of everyone on the field yet. Second, I'm not enamored with any of those who are clearly on the field.

So, while it's a pussy move, I'm reserving my answer for the time being.

But I have to say I'm not sure this is truly a Moderate Conservative country, not at its core. Sure, Conservative sloganeering works well these days, but when it gets down to real life examples (Katrina, Iraq), I think people really tend to lean more Liberal. But they've been told "Liberal" is practically Communist, so they run away from the term. But not the ideals. We've gotten a real sense of what a small domestic government means--you're fucked if something really big and bad happens. I don't think that's sitting so well right now.

Wow. How do you reconcile those two in your head?

I don't know how I feel about this. I would always vote for who I thought the best leader was (according to my values of leadership) regardless of party. I would only vote my party lines is if both candidates are absolutely terrible like the last presidential election.

I naively and genuinely believe that both have the United States of America's best interest in their hearts. I believe them both to be men of integrity, which means alot more to me then how they feel about abortion.

as someone said earlier, i agree he's a good leader but i don't agree with where he would lead. If Christine Whitman ran as a republican i would vote for her over Kerry.

Leadership and Personality.

Derek, people want SOME response from their government. They want law and order, and a little help when they really need it (unemployment, WiC) but in the end, they also want people to do for themselves.

And if you really don't get that this is a moderate to conservative country, as Sam Rayburn would say "You couldn't win a contested election for Dog Catcher."

Yeah, but several different presidents have lead this country to greatness but in different idealogical directions.

I knew there was a reason I like you oldbull...are we seperated at birth or something?

Luckily, I'm not running for that particular office.

And again, I agree that most people probably THINK themselves Conservative, until they actually need to call on those social services. How many fiscally conservative auto workers do you think will file for unemployment as Ford and GM lay them off over the next two years? How many "small government" conservatives on the south eastern seaboard do you think will apply for emergency loans and grants to rebuild their homes and businesses this year? How many will file for medicare in their twilight years? It's bunk. They've been sold a bill of goods. They think they support conservative values, and they do, until it hits home.

Now social values is another thing. I completely underestimated the power of gay marriage bans in '04. I still can't believe people care that much about what other people do in their private lives, but that's that.

gays are icky!

Yeah, not arguing the effectiveness of their management, just the value Americans put on their existing.

OOPs. I was repsonding to a post that is now gone. Disregard.

Yeah, I removed it because I do agree with you in that regard.

Do you all think McCain will win in the primaries?

No. It's going to be Romney v. Napolitano. Two governorships -- an office from which the majority of our recent COC have risen (Carter, Reagan, Clinton, GWBush) -- facing off. It will be great.... Especially since the Rep will be from Librul Mass while the Dem will be a tough-on-crime (and, supposedly, bush) former US Attorney from Red-state, Arizona.... Topsy-turvy.

I'm with Tanner and Dave on this one!

Sorry, confused again. So in 1960 you would have supported LBJ because you knew even given his record he would be able to manipulate the congress to accomplish... something. Anything.

Or is your point electability? LBJ was elected in 1964 because Kennedy was killed. Kennedy beat Nixon (and Johnson) because he was Kennedy. Bobby most likely would have been elected but he was killed. Conventional wisdom says Humphrey might well have been elected if had run away from LBJ, more to the left, more his own man.

In any case, this a bit of what I take from your anecdote. More proof of my short-sightedness and litmus-testing syndrome.

Napolitano has huge potential.

AND integrity and leadership. Such qualities are developed and demonstrated on more than just battlefields.

what about midterm elections? does anyone see either the senate or the house flipping?

Unlikely, but I do see Democratic gains in both houses.

i have high hopes that Santorum won't win in PA.
but maybe that's just blind hope.

You can bet on it. Santorum is history.

A Survey USA poll has found that Pennsylvania's US Senator Rick Santorum has the highest disapproval rating of all 100 senators in the US Senate.

His 44% negative rating exceeds all other senators by at least one point. These poll numbers may explain why George Bush came to Santorum’s rescue recently, raising 1.5 million at a fundraiser to shore up the faltering right wing extremist who many believe is being groomed to be one of the 2008 Republican presidential primary candidates. (For example, when you google Santorum, you get an ad that takes you to a Bill Frist for President website.)

Recent polls have shown Santorum seven to 14 points behind in a race against democrat Bob Casey Jr., the candidate purportedly hand-picked and annointed by PA Governor and former DNC Chair Ed Rendell, Senate Minority Whip Harry Reid, NY Dem Senator Charles Schumer and major Dem fundraiser/contributor Peter Buttenwieser. Word has it that Schumer initiated the push for Casey's candidacy because Casey is anti-abortion. Many Democratic faithful, particularly people who care about women's rights, are not happy that Schumer and his people are trying to do an end run around the primary election process, since part of the Casey deal was the withdrawal of two people who were expected by many to be candidates-- Barbara Hafer and Joe Hoeffel. .

The only other declared candidate running as a Democrat against against Santorum, history and political science professor, Chuck Pennacchio, a veteran of several winning US senate campaigns, has pointed out that Santorum's last competitor, in the 2000 election cycle, conservative Democrat Ron Klink, was also "pro-life," and he was unsuccessful in beating Santorum, losing by seven points. Some suggest that it was the failure of this conservative to energy progressive activists and donors that cost the Democrats the electioin. Pennacchio believes that he has a much better chance at beating Santorum than Casey because there is a clearer choice between him and Santorum than there is between Casey and Santorum. On issues ranging from choice, to stem cell research, to equal rights, the Terry Schiavo bill, separation of church and state, and the American War in Iraq, Santorum and Casey look the same.

(See Loogar? Willing to test on the wrong color if the big picture needs a frame).

That reminds me. The Louisiana Governor's election can't come soon enough. I can't take another day of Kathleen Fathead.