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 Post subject: Service Fees on Tickets (Ticketmaster)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:31 pm 
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I know this horse has been beaten to a pulp, but I can't help myself. It is unbelievable to me how badly they gouge the public...I really can't think of another example of something similar. Let's think about their overhead:

Inventory Software to manage tickets (been paid for LONG ago, all gravy now)
Bandwidth (definitely a cost, but not over the top)
Minor marketing fees
Printing / sending / handling charges (less than $1 per ticket)

Yet somehow the average person is forced to pay $7/8 per ticket for a $15 show.

The other night, Tues, figure I am gonna skip the damn fee for Go! Team, can't be that many people going to see them on a Tues night, can there? Get there, sold out, was ready to kill someone.

I know Pearl Jam made a good effort in fighting them, albeit a losing one. Why can't bands and or arenas simply buy some simple inventory software and cut Ticketmaster out? I seriously cannot understand this.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:32 pm 
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Let's start our own business. Obnermaster.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Not sure if this is Ticketmaster related, but I was going to buy a ticket to Lollapalooza and they have a $15 service fee on top of a freakin' $10 shipping fee. Gimme a break.


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 Post subject: Re: Service Fees on Tickets (Ticketmaster)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:21 pm 
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wilked Wrote:
Inventory Software to manage tickets (been paid for LONG ago, all gravy now)
Bandwidth (definitely a cost, but not over the top)
Minor marketing fees
Printing / sending / handling charges (less than $1 per ticket)


Presumably there's some upkeep costs for the software and website as well. Plus they have to pay their employees.

However, you are correct. It's ridiculous. They do it because people pay it. They pay for the convenience. That's why it's called a convenience charge.

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 Post subject: Re: Service Fees on Tickets (Ticketmaster)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:32 pm 
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wilked Wrote:
I know this horse has been beaten to a pulp, but I can't help myself. It is unbelievable to me how badly they gouge the public...I really can't think of another example of something similar. Let's think about their overhead:

Inventory Software to manage tickets (been paid for LONG ago, all gravy now)
Bandwidth (definitely a cost, but not over the top)
Minor marketing fees
Printing / sending / handling charges (less than $1 per ticket)

Yet somehow the average person is forced to pay $7/8 per ticket for a $15 show.

The other night, Tues, figure I am gonna skip the damn fee for Go! Team, can't be that many people going to see them on a Tues night, can there? Get there, sold out, was ready to kill someone.

I know Pearl Jam made a good effort in fighting them, albeit a losing one. Why can't bands and or arenas simply buy some simple inventory software and cut Ticketmaster out? I seriously cannot understand this.


I loathe that company with every fiber of my being. It's shocking that they can have such a monopoly in restraint of trade and get away with it.

We need some antitrust enforcement here!


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 Post subject: Re: Service Fees on Tickets (Ticketmaster)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:38 pm 
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Major Label Sell Out

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shmoo Wrote:
wilked Wrote:
Inventory Software to manage tickets (been paid for LONG ago, all gravy now)
Bandwidth (definitely a cost, but not over the top)
Minor marketing fees
Printing / sending / handling charges (less than $1 per ticket)


Presumably there's some upkeep costs for the software and website as well. Plus they have to pay their employees.

However, you are correct. It's ridiculous. They do it because people pay it. They pay for the convenience. That's why it's called a convenience charge.


It's not even so much that it is convenient, often it is the only option


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 Post subject: Re: Service Fees on Tickets (Ticketmaster)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:40 pm 
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wilked Wrote:
wilked Wrote:


It's not even so much that it is convenient, often it is the only option


exactly right. there are no other options in many cases.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:45 pm 
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tickets.com and the other competitors have one thing in common: their websites look like shit. With all the money to be made, some company needs to come correct with a well-designed website.

Does anyone know the specifics on who gets paid what?

We pay TM $8 per ticket. How much of this goes to arena, artist? Or does arena pay TM? This is a little unclear to me.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:52 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that Ticketmaster in addition to handling ticket sales and providing the venues' box office with its technology and equipment also provides advertising and marketing $ to the venues for their shows. My guess is that this marketing allowance is easily the largest expense they incur. For all the seemingly excessive fees they charge, I don't think that they are hugely profitable (meaning not in a monopolistic type sense). I could be wrong. I just spent a few minutes looking for financial segment reporting in their parent's 10-K but didn't find anything that helpful to confirm my thinking. That said, yeah it pisses me off when half my ticket cost appears to go to ticketmaster but what are you going to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:55 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Ticketmaster in addition to handling ticket sales and providing the venues' box office with its technology and equipment also provides advertising and marketing $ to the venues for their shows. My guess is that this marketing allowance is easily the largest expense they incur. For all the seemingly excessive fees they charge, I don't think that they are hugely profitable (meaning not in a monopolistic type sense). I could be wrong. I just spent a few minutes looking for financial segment reporting in their parent's 10-K but didn't find anything that helpful to confirm my thinking. That said, yeah it pisses me off when half my ticket cost appears to go to ticketmaster but what are you going to do.


what are they advertising though? I see them advertising U2 on a billboard when the show sells out in 3 mins...wtf?

Ya, I tried to get my hands on financials, gave up after a while


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:57 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
yeah it pisses me off when half my ticket cost appears to go to ticketmaster but what are you going to do.


I go to the venue and purchase the ticket there (no Ticketmaster fees!) but, yes, that is not always possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:25 am 
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Yeah I try to buy tickets at the venue as much as possible. The only time I really use the website is when I know I can spare the money.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:12 am 
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I don't use their website either. I go to the record store in my mall and buy them there. But the charges are still close to half the original ticket price sometimes. And they're not even paying the employees now because the employees are employees of Sunrise, not Ticketmaster. So god knows why they need to charge $12 in charges for someone to hit a few keys and hand me a ticket.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:07 pm 
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As an employee of a corporately ran arena, I can tell you that the only thing we receive from Ticketmaster is computers and software. I'm pretty sure that they, Clear Channel and SMG, the company I work for, have some major deal together to protect their interest.
I've always thought we could bring in more money by booking acts that prefer to use etix rather than ticketmaster, like all the major indie shows produced by 1% Productions in Omaha. I think we lose alot of money gouging people threw both exorbinant production costs and ticket fees.
If Ticketmaster actually pays the people to run their box offices, their salary typically is about $7 to $8.50 an hour around here.
I really think they are robbing people now that alot of people use the print at home option and still have to pay a pretty steep service fee, far more than etix charges you for printing at home.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:18 pm 
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I won't go to a show if I have to buy tickets through Ticketmaster. Aqualung played Schubas last year and sold tickets through TM - I stayed home. I'm sure TM's not hurting because they don't have my $7-$15, but it makes me feel better.

I am, however, paying TM fees to my roommate who had to pay them for an upcoming Sigur Ros show. I'm not happy about that, but I'm definitely not going to stiff him because of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:25 pm 
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When I saw Damone/69 Eyes a couple of weeks ago, the $13 ticket had an extra $5 in charges on it.

I paid $15 at the door of the venue. If I'm gonna pay extra I want the $$$ to go to the venue, not TicketBastard.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:39 pm 
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It cost me 3.50 for a "service fee" to go see a hockey game in Norfolk, VA. Now, my question is, what service, besides hitting the enter key on the "buy ticket" option are they providing. I mean, I freaking pick up the ticket at Will Call so it's not even as though ticketmaster is providing the damn paper for the ticket. it's ridiculous.

The only thing that even compares to the ridiculousness of ticketmaster is the concession stand at a movie theater. 4 BUCKS for a small soda? come ON! When I worked at burger king way back when, my manager told me that one large soda cost 11 cents to make, including the liquid, the ice, the upkeep of the machine, the cup, the lid, and the straw.

I want to just start a foutain soda store. I could make a shitload. Especially if I opened one inside a movie theater.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:40 pm 
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it's a big farking scam. fees are the big way to make $ nowadays for any business. i take this into account when thinking about concerts to go to. (okkervil river/decemberists was such a great deal last year!)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:54 pm 
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Hegel-Oh's Wrote:
It cost me 3.50 for a "service fee" to go see a hockey game in Norfolk, VA. Now, my question is, what service, besides hitting the enter key on the "buy ticket" option are they providing. I mean, I freaking pick up the ticket at Will Call so it's not even as though ticketmaster is providing the damn paper for the ticket. it's ridiculous.

The only thing that even compares to the ridiculousness of ticketmaster is the concession stand at a movie theater. 4 BUCKS for a small soda? come ON! When I worked at burger king way back when, my manager told me that one large soda cost 11 cents to make, including the liquid, the ice, the upkeep of the machine, the cup, the lid, and the straw.

I want to just start a foutain soda store. I could make a shitload. Especially if I opened one inside a movie theater.


As a former theater employee, the reason for exorbinant prices at theaters an arena concessions is that is the only place the venue actually makes its profits. Almost all first run movie profits go back to the studio. A theater chain only makes a profit off of a film if they hold a movie longer than they were originally contracted. I don't think it is right to charge that much, but people in that industry are pretty much forced to rip you off due to how much they are getting raped by the movie industry.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Promethium Wrote:
Hegel-Oh's Wrote:
It cost me 3.50 for a "service fee" to go see a hockey game in Norfolk, VA. Now, my question is, what service, besides hitting the enter key on the "buy ticket" option are they providing. I mean, I freaking pick up the ticket at Will Call so it's not even as though ticketmaster is providing the damn paper for the ticket. it's ridiculous.

The only thing that even compares to the ridiculousness of ticketmaster is the concession stand at a movie theater. 4 BUCKS for a small soda? come ON! When I worked at burger king way back when, my manager told me that one large soda cost 11 cents to make, including the liquid, the ice, the upkeep of the machine, the cup, the lid, and the straw.

I want to just start a foutain soda store. I could make a shitload. Especially if I opened one inside a movie theater.


As a former theater employee, the reason for exorbinant prices at theaters an arena concessions is that is the only place the venue actually makes its profits. Almost all first run movie profits go back to the studio. A theater chain only makes a profit off of a film if they hold a movie longer than they were originally contracted. I don't think it is right to charge that much, but people in that industry are pretty much forced to rip you off due to how much they are getting raped by the movie industry.


Interestingly enough, I just read an article in my local newspaper about this and they said that only about 50% of profits come from the concessions. At least in this area is what they were talking about. Who knows. Either way, it's a lot of money.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:47 pm 
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From a company report in 2000:

Quote:
Ticketing & Transactions

Ticketing revenue was $32.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2000, an increase of 56.6 percent compared to the year ago quarter. Gross transaction value in the fourth quarter for ticketmaster.com was approximately $221.1 million. Ticketmaster.com sold more than 4.5 million tickets in the quarter, representing 26.2 percent of the total tickets sold by Ticketmaster Corporation within the United States, United Kingdom and Canada. For the full year ticketmaster.com sold 19.0 million tickets compared with 10.0 million in 1999, an increase of 90 percent. Gross transaction value for the full year was $864.0 million compared with $445.4 million in 1999, an increase of 94.0 percent. The average convenience and handling charge for ticketmaster.com in the fourth quarter of 2000 was $6.75 per ticket.


That year, they acquired CitySearch, which accounted for most of the other revenue:

Quote:
City Guide & Related

City Guide and Related revenue increased 36.3 percent to $17.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2000 from $12.8 million in the comparable year-ago period. City guide page view traffic increased 80 percent since the fourth quarter last year. Full year page views increased from 215 million to 551 million in 2000, an increase of 156 percent. The Citysearch network of local city guides now covers 49 of the 50 US markets with the highest number of Internet users, according to The Media Audit report.

"At year end, we completed the rollout of the new look and functional design of our city guides which was a key part of our CS21 initiative," said Steven Trepp, president of Citysearch. "Our product momentum is significant as we continue to build the best local site, with deep local information and the best local searching on the Internet. We also have had great success in selling our local premium placements, with as many as 15 categories selling out in multiple markets. And, importantly, all of this progress has been made while we have reduced our operating expense."


Ticketmaster became a part of IAC InteractiveCorp (IACI) after 2003. Their 2003 10k report:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1006637/000091205702013057/a2074560z10-k.htm
...an interesting blurb from their Competition segment (which I find funny):
Quote:
Accordingly, Ticketmaster competes with the facilities, promoters and other potential clients for the right to distribute their tickets at retail outlets, by telephone and on the Internet.

That year (2001) they phsyically lost about $150 Million, but after tinkering with the numbers they report a gain of $79 M.


So the 2006 10k of IACI is here.

In this latest report, they mention that Illinois and California brought lawsuits (2003) against them for upcharging UPS delivery fees, looks like. Check pages 29 and 30.

Here's the rub... I don't see that they break out which division made how much $profit, because they don't have to. It's one of the reasons to gobble up lots of unrelated companies. BUT -- From "Sources Of Revenue:"
Quote:
Our Ticketing segment was the largest financial contributor to our Services sector for the years ended December 31, 2005 and 2004. Our Ticketing business is primarily an agency business that sells tickets for events on behalf of our clients and retains a convenience charge and order processing fee for our services. We sell these tickets through a combination of websites, telephone services and ticket outlets.


The long and short of it (as far as I can make out) is that IACI's Operating Income from Retailing businesses (including ticketmeister) was $282.3 Million for 2005, and Ticketmonster accounted for $218.7 of that, or 77.5%.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:58 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Fu Wrote:
Obnermaster.


This is begging for a photo.

If it's sold by ticketmaster, I won't buy it. I'll go to the venue to avoid paying fees. If I can't go without using ticketbastard, I'll do something else.


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