so is Martin Luther King. he's laughing at those that are calling this a civil rights issue.

are you quoting bill o'reilly verbatim, dalen, or do you mix in some new york post for good measure?

do you guys think the government feels intimidated in the slightest?

sadly, no. i don't know what it would take to intimidate our government at this point outside of flying planes into buildings.

sorry, not an o'reilly fan.

What? He's probably saying , "Damn Mexicans are trying to ruin my country."

The government must feel pretty intimidated, they are dropping the Felony status of being here illegally. I also know that alot of the local governments where these protest are occurring are more sympathetic to the protesters than they are in agreement with congress.
They had a protest in Norfolk, NE on Monday while I was there. They only had 1,000 people, but in a town of 25,000, with an immigrant population in that area of anywhere between 2,500 and 5,000. It was a good turnout. A meat packing plant just recently closed there, and I think the city knows how much they depended on the sales tax these people pay and the development they are responsible for in the last decade.

Well, let's see..as I see it, saved is a homophobe and dalen isn't a racist. You see the difference there?

i like this idea, but i'm not sure if we could ever muster the political will to do it--i have a hunch that a lot of the same people who want less immigration would scream just as loud about seriously increasing aid to mexico (which i assume any marshall-type plan would have to include).

as far as racism goes, i can see a racist undertone to the pro-immigration side as well--the idea that we can tolerate hispanic people as long as they do shit work for shit pay. i think a lot of people would come down on this issue different if mexicans were competing for secure jobs with good benefits.

I think this is exactly where the catch 22 situation comes in. Normally, the reason why a vast majority of these people have not been able to gain citizenship at a faster rate is due to their low skill level. It isn't that hard for a doctor/professor from the 3rd world to emigrate to the US due to political/economic hardships in their home country, but when you are an illiterate, non-english speaking laborer, your not recognized as a necessity to the US work force.

I think alot of people have yet to accept that our economy is dependent on these low level/low skilled employees. As for the secured jobs with benefits, our citizens have to be more fearful of losing those jobs to people abroad than to immigrants at home. I also think the government has forgotten about how much the bureaucracy and labor force has adapted to suit these people. ESL related professions is a growing job field and educational program at colleges. I think alot more jobs with benefits are at stake now than they would ever be with an exceptionally educated group of immigrants.

[quote="Promethium] the reason why a vast majority of these people have not been able to gain citizenship at a faster rate is due to their low skill level. [/quote]

Nope. you need five years of permanent residency and to pass a reasonably simple citizednship test. Skill level pretty much is not a factor. It is who gets to be legal for five years that determines the pool of new citizens...

Vicente Fox was a coca-cola distributor... need we say more?

Corruption? Tom Delay?

If Obrador is elected... it is a HUGE opportunity to change the paradigm, and do something meaningful for Mexican economic development. Let's hope that the next administration has a little wit about the timing and opportunity. Although I have bashed McCain elsewhere, I think he could become a president who could tackle this issue with new eyes.

i'd like you to say more. is that supposed to be an ethically challenging position? Because i do way more ethically compromising stuff than distribute soda, and so far as i remember you're a lawyer.

coke has been accused of hiring paramilitary types to kill a labor organizer in colombia. so that's one thing.

figures that you sniveling liberals would be against the use of violence by private companies to achieve their anti-union goals. next you'll be telling me that you don't respect Coke Blak.

It perhaps is a cheap shot..

But my point is that he was a dsitributor for a multi-national corporation which takes millions of dollars out of the country... Coke as a corporate strategy tries to dominate markets, especially local competition... sorta the WalMart of beverages. None of this is particularly great preparation for someone who wants to look at domestic economic development that would keep profits locally.

I have graduate degrees in literature and education. I am not a lawyer. Nothing wrong with lawyers though.

I would not rightly refer to HaqDiesel as a liberal... Even if he does quaff their beverage of choice -- the soy latte -- with some regularity.

Overall, I think he's a pragmatist, which is another word for New Republic style liberal (which isn't liberal at all).

you never sleep on the commie threat - wherever it hides its ugly head.

i'm open to any and all labels. i throw around "moderate" but i don't think it's really accurate.

rparis - i don't know what that means.

my bad man, i saw the suit and i panicked. still, it sounds like you don't like him because he makes money. Their corporate strategy is that they try to dominate markets? no shit? because that's pretty much what business is, right?

Consistency being the hobgoblin of littel minds, I think if you can label yourself a liberal or a conservative, its another term for "fucking moron."

Unless it's JAIL?

This is the myth of "Adam Smith" capitalism that we suck up to in this country blindly. (By the way, Smith always calculated how many impoverished people it took to support the creation of a wealthy man... the goal).

In a world of post-state-capitalism, where multinational hegemonies crush the entrepreneurial sprit and manipulate markets for the good of a few, the nostalgic and dishonest idea that "business" is about this free market competition is a load of dangerous shit.

Yes and no, mostly yes. There's "good clean fighting" and then there's "the dirty dirty." You can go after a market hardcore, spend megabucks on media, launch specific products, celeb endorsements, blahblah, generally just give it one hell of a try, or you can hire goons. I honestly haven't the foggiest whether coke has dipped into well #2 there or not.

Oh c'mon...monsters like Robert Woodruff founded that company, and one thing "multi-nationals" like about being in foreign markets, much like the CIA vis-a-vis the FBI, is they don't have to follow any kind of real laws, such as we havein this country. More often that not in America, if you take bribes, are dirty, etc..it's found out....I would venture a guess that this is not the case in countries like Mexico, or Columbia...or present day Russia, etc...