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 Post subject: moussaoui gets life
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:41 pm 
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Moussaoui gets life in jail

ALEXANDRIA, Virginia (Reuters) - Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person convicted in a U.S. court in connection with September 11, should spend his life in prison instead of being executed for his role in the hijacked airliner attacks, a jury decided on Wednesday.

"America you lost!" Moussaoui shouted as he left the courtroom after hearing the verdict. He clapped his hands and yelled, "I won!"

The 37-year-old French citizen of Moroccan descent will be formally sentenced on Thursday.

The verdict was read by U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema at the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, not far from the Pentagon, the site of one of the 2001 attacks. It was read simultaneously before television cameras outside the courthouse by spokesman Edward Adams.

At the White House, President George W. Bush hailed the sentencing of the man he said "openly rejoiced" at the deaths on September 11 and said "evil" had been vanquished.

"The end of this trial represents the end of this case, but not an end to the fight against terror," Bush said. "...And we can be confident. Our cause is right, and the outcome is certain: Justice will be served. Evil will not have the final say."

In the courtroom, Moussaoui sat praying silently as Brinkema read the verdict. He appeared to relax after she read that the jurors did not unanimously agree that a sentence of death should be imposed.

The jury did not find that Moussaoui's actions resulted in the deaths of about 3,000 people on that September day -- a central part of the government's demand for the death penalty.

"No jurors found that the execution of Zacarias Moussaoui will create a martyr for radical Muslim fundamentalists and to al Qaeda in particular," Adams said.

"Three jurors found that Zacarias Moussaoui's role in the 9/11 operation, if any, was minor," he said.

Nine jurors also gave weight to Moussaoui's unstable early childhood and dysfunctional family life, part of a defense presented by lawyers on their client's behalf.

The government, which had demanded the death penalty, has seen other high-profile cases in its war on terrorism deflate.

Anti-death penalty activists said the case showed U.S. juries were less willing to impose capital punishment than in the past, even in a case of such wrenching emotion. They said the number of death penalties imposed by juries had fallen dramatically since the late 1990s and continued to drop year by year.

Federal prosecutors had asked the jury to sentence Moussaoui to death, arguing his failure to tell law enforcement officers who detained him about the upcoming September 11 plot was tantamount to carrying out the attacks himself.

But jurors, who spent about 41 hours deliberating before reaching the verdict, were divided on whether he should be executed.

Earlier this month the same jury of nine men and three women found Moussaoui eligible for the death penalty. The jury verdict followed a second, two-week phase of the sentencing trial.

Moussaoui was arrested three weeks before the September 11 attacks and said he was meant to pilot a fifth airplane into the White House as part of the plot.

He pleaded guilty to six counts of conspiracy, three of which carried a maximum death sentence.

During his trial, Moussaoui said he had no remorse for the September 11 attacks in which about 3,000 people died.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:44 pm 
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If we don't kill this guy, why do we even have the death penalty?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:47 pm 
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because moussaoui didnt actually kill anyone.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:49 pm 
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mutty Wrote:
If we don't kill this guy, why do we even have the death penalty?


for people who don't believe in martyrdom?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:51 pm 
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to thin out the retard population?

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:51 pm 
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buck v. bell, baby. you know what i'm talkin' about.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:52 pm 
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I'm a little confused to what his actual crime is. I'm sure there is one but what I get from the press is that he is associated with al qeeda and has evil thoughts of wanting to kill lots of americans. I'm sure there must be an actual criminal act that he was tried for though, right, not just thoughts and associations? Some one tell me what it is because I don't think I've ever read a single article that mentioned it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:53 pm 
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i'm there.

ok - back to property transactions and statutory redemption (its too beautiful outside to study, jesus h.)

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:55 pm 
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This was the best punishment they could give a guy who actually wants to die. He hoped to be martyred and laughed at people as they testified about 9/11 and his involvement.
He's going to end up at Marion Federal Prison now and spend 23hrs in a solitary cell. That place is under constant surveillance for human rights violations.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:58 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
I'm a little confused to what his actual crime is. I'm sure there is one but what I get from the press is that he is associated with al qeeda and has evil thoughts of wanting to kill lots of americans. I'm sure there must be an actual criminal act that he was tried for though, right, not just thoughts and associations? Some one tell me what it is because I don't think I've ever read a single article that mentioned it.


He was involved in the planning of the whole 9/11 shebang, fully intended to fly a 5th plane, and took steps to that end, from what i gather. So, terrorist conspiracy?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:59 pm 
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maybe we send him to phil's school to replace phil and hook up with that hot teacher? praise be to allah.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:22 pm 
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HaqDiesel Wrote:
billy g Wrote:
I'm a little confused to what his actual crime is. I'm sure there is one but what I get from the press is that he is associated with al qeeda and has evil thoughts of wanting to kill lots of americans. I'm sure there must be an actual criminal act that he was tried for though, right, not just thoughts and associations? Some one tell me what it is because I don't think I've ever read a single article that mentioned it.


He was involved in the planning of the whole 9/11 shebang, fully intended to fly a 5th plane, and took steps to that end, from what i gather. So, terrorist conspiracy?


intent is a hard thing to proove (though you probably know better than i do), and i think in this case they were given a pretty broad scope as to what that means so they could get around it. also, a conviction based on intent in my estimation doesnt warrent a sentence as long as this.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Northern Soul Wrote:
intent is a hard thing to proove (though you probably know better than i do), and i think in this case they were given a pretty broad scope as to what that means so they could get around it. also, a conviction based on intent in my estimation doesnt warrent a sentence as long as this.


What is "conspiracy" other than intent?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:32 pm 
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Billzebub Wrote:
Northern Soul Wrote:
intent is a hard thing to proove (though you probably know better than i do), and i think in this case they were given a pretty broad scope as to what that means so they could get around it. also, a conviction based on intent in my estimation doesnt warrent a sentence as long as this.


What is "conspiracy" other than intent?


sorry

Definition at Common Law – an agreement by two or more presons to commit a criminal act or series of criminal acts, or to accomplish a legal act by unlawful means.

§ 5.03 Model Penal Code Definition – A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he:
a. Agrees with such other person or perons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct that constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime or
b. Agrees to aid such other person or perons in the planning or commission of the crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Promethium Wrote:
That place is under constant surveillance for human rights violations.


in this guys case, i'm glad. i hope he gets the lights beat out of him on a daily basis.


Last edited by Dalen on Wed May 03, 2006 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:37 pm 
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rparis74 Wrote:
Billzebub Wrote:
Northern Soul Wrote:
intent is a hard thing to proove (though you probably know better than i do), and i think in this case they were given a pretty broad scope as to what that means so they could get around it. also, a conviction based on intent in my estimation doesnt warrent a sentence as long as this.


What is "conspiracy" other than intent?


sorry

Definition at Common Law – an agreement by two or more presons to commit a criminal act or series of criminal acts, or to accomplish a legal act by unlawful means.

§ 5.03 Model Penal Code Definition – A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he:
a. Agrees with such other person or perons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct that constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime or
b. Agrees to aid such other person or perons in the planning or commission of the crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime


all of which supports "intent", no? His convictions were for conspiracy, and did he not admit to intent? Northern's post seemed (to me at least) that the case was more or less trumped up, based on some tenuous claim of intent.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:39 pm 
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mutty Wrote:
If we don't kill this guy, why do we even have the death penalty?


in this case, the only justification is bloodthirsty revenge. it's not like suicide bombers are a particularly deterrable bunch.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Billzebub Wrote:
rparis74 Wrote:
Billzebub Wrote:
Northern Soul Wrote:
intent is a hard thing to proove (though you probably know better than i do), and i think in this case they were given a pretty broad scope as to what that means so they could get around it. also, a conviction based on intent in my estimation doesnt warrent a sentence as long as this.


What is "conspiracy" other than intent?


sorry

Definition at Common Law – an agreement by two or more presons to commit a criminal act or series of criminal acts, or to accomplish a legal act by unlawful means.

§ 5.03 Model Penal Code Definition – A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he:
a. Agrees with such other person or perons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct that constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime or
b. Agrees to aid such other person or perons in the planning or commission of the crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime


all of which supports "intent", no? His convictions were for conspiracy, and did he not admit to intent? Northern's post seemed (to me at least) that the case was more or less trumped up, based on some tenuous claim of intent.


under the MPC

Model Penal Code Act Element:
1. A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he agrees to:
a. Engage in conduct constituting a crime
b. Attempt to engage in conduct constituting a crime
c. Solicit another to engage in conduct constituting a crime
d. Aid another in planning or committing a crime, attempt, or solicitation

As far as mental state, a person acts purposely if it is his conscious object to engage in conduct of that nature or to cause such a result


guilty of conspiracy means guilty of the underlying crime, murder, and so death penalty eligible

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:54 pm 
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i'm all for cruel and unusual punishments. DOH! damn you bill o' rights!

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