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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:25 am 
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The Great American Songbook

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oldbullee Wrote:
the redworm Wrote:
I'm too annoyed with this argument to even start. but then what the hell.

the point is, though, is that PEOPLE DO DRUGS. No matter what happens, people will keep doing them. You'd think after the trillions of dollars we've pissed away on a drug war people could see that. Why not loosen up the laws, legalize pot and tax the hell out of it? As someone who smoked pot several times a day for over a decade, I can assure you that I've never hurt anyone, stolen anything, blah blah blah. The reason you've dealt with these people is because they're the ones who got caught or bottomed out, probably doing something stupid. The number of peaceful, rational americans is infinitely higher than I'm sure any study has shown in years.
One of the drawbacks of making drugs as illegal as they are is that you're going to make everything about them, from transporting them to buying them to doing them THAT much more illegal. You might as well break a few more laws once you've started that. It's a lot easier to shoot the dude on the corner that's not supposed to have the drugs anyway than shooting some guy in a state-run facility behing bulletproof glass. Sure, this wouldn't make drugs completely safe, but it would massively cut down on the violence and keep the shit away from kids.


While I don't totally disagree with you, saying that people will do drugs is not an argument for legalization. I mean people will speed but that's not gonna stop from trying to enforce traffic laws.


yeah, but copsdon't police speed limits that hard. they letyougo for 5-10 miles over thelimit. why not adopt similar policies with pot?

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:05 am 
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gauchebag Wrote:
oldbullee Wrote:
the redworm Wrote:
I'm too annoyed with this argument to even start. but then what the hell.

the point is, though, is that PEOPLE DO DRUGS. No matter what happens, people will keep doing them. You'd think after the trillions of dollars we've pissed away on a drug war people could see that. Why not loosen up the laws, legalize pot and tax the hell out of it? As someone who smoked pot several times a day for over a decade, I can assure you that I've never hurt anyone, stolen anything, blah blah blah. The reason you've dealt with these people is because they're the ones who got caught or bottomed out, probably doing something stupid. The number of peaceful, rational americans is infinitely higher than I'm sure any study has shown in years.
One of the drawbacks of making drugs as illegal as they are is that you're going to make everything about them, from transporting them to buying them to doing them THAT much more illegal. You might as well break a few more laws once you've started that. It's a lot easier to shoot the dude on the corner that's not supposed to have the drugs anyway than shooting some guy in a state-run facility behing bulletproof glass. Sure, this wouldn't make drugs completely safe, but it would massively cut down on the violence and keep the shit away from kids.


While I don't totally disagree with you, saying that people will do drugs is not an argument for legalization. I mean people will speed but that's not gonna stop from trying to enforce traffic laws.


yeah, but copsdon't police speed limits that hard. they letyougo for 5-10 miles over thelimit. why not adopt similar policies with pot?


I agree with you on that point. I think they should focus on the supply side of harder stuff and start early on risk and protective factors involved with drug addiction.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:03 pm 
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The Great American Songbook

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oldbullee Wrote:
gauchebag Wrote:
oldbullee Wrote:
the redworm Wrote:
I'm too annoyed with this argument to even start. but then what the hell.

the point is, though, is that PEOPLE DO DRUGS. No matter what happens, people will keep doing them. You'd think after the trillions of dollars we've pissed away on a drug war people could see that. Why not loosen up the laws, legalize pot and tax the hell out of it? As someone who smoked pot several times a day for over a decade, I can assure you that I've never hurt anyone, stolen anything, blah blah blah. The reason you've dealt with these people is because they're the ones who got caught or bottomed out, probably doing something stupid. The number of peaceful, rational americans is infinitely higher than I'm sure any study has shown in years.
One of the drawbacks of making drugs as illegal as they are is that you're going to make everything about them, from transporting them to buying them to doing them THAT much more illegal. You might as well break a few more laws once you've started that. It's a lot easier to shoot the dude on the corner that's not supposed to have the drugs anyway than shooting some guy in a state-run facility behing bulletproof glass. Sure, this wouldn't make drugs completely safe, but it would massively cut down on the violence and keep the shit away from kids.


While I don't totally disagree with you, saying that people will do drugs is not an argument for legalization. I mean people will speed but that's not gonna stop from trying to enforce traffic laws.


yeah, but copsdon't police speed limits that hard. they letyougo for 5-10 miles over thelimit. why not adopt similar policies with pot?


I agree with you on that point. I think they should focus on the supply side of harder stuff and start early on risk and protective factors involved with drug addiction.


i agree with that as well but i'm wary of using the term "harder stuff" because i'm not sure exactly what people mean by that, although i imagine that say, cocaine and heroin would be included. i don't think that mushrooms or lsd should be put in that class.

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Once she loved a boy. But he did not love her.
His name was Jun. Disillusioned she tried to forget.
She left everything and traveled to the other world.
But life was like a dream.
A series of meaningless movement.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:01 pm 
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gabssA Wrote:
the redworm Wrote:
the point is, though, is that PEOPLE DO DRUGS. No matter what happens, people will keep doing them.


You could use that argument with anything that is against the law.

the point is, though, that PEOPLE RAPE CHILDREN. No matter what happens, people will keep doing them."

haha. I couldn't resist using that example.

I do agree though that trying to stop marijuana at all costs is a futile exercise, because they could spend more money on finding and destroying meth labs or the aforementioned child molesters. However, legalizing drugs, IMO, will not reduce crime it will just change what kind we see prominently.


the difference is that raping children (or speeding or jaywalking) doesn't have the potential to make you assloads of money real real fast. the unbeatable economic incentive to sell drugs is what keeps them available and on the street. there's this unspoken assumption that locking up drug dealers impacts the availability of drugs. fact is, it doesn't--wonky criminal justice nerds call it the hydra head problem. for every drug dealer you lock up, another one always steps up to take his place. about the best you can accomplish is temporary disruptions in supply, which gives the dealers that aren't behind bars an excuse to raise prices and make even more money. talk to any cop who's been involved in drug eradication--i've yet to meet one who believes drugs are any harder to get than they were twenty years ago. this is despite countless billions spent on drug enforcement and scores of people locked up. so if locking up drug dealers doesn't stop the supply of drugs, why do it? are we locking people in cages to prove a point?

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Seems to me that a lot of people are lumping together "Drugs" as a whole. Not to turn it into a pot legalization discussion, but it's widely considered less harmful than tobacco and less addictive. Where's the reasoning for maintaining at as something, if caught with, I would get a mandatory jail sentence of 2 years for possession of a good deal of it in my state of Connecticut? Seems silly to me.

And for those naysayers on it, as someone under 21, I can easily say that with one phone call I could have as much weed as my money could buy. Alcohol? Practically a pain in the ass to get, and twice as difficult to get consistantly.

I'd say that the state restrictions on alcohol are working quite nicely, all things considered. Can't think of why one who's thinking of the children would be opposed to a system that has thus far kept a consistant supply of alcohol out of the majority of under-aged people.

(Also, fake ID's, for those not in big cities, are much harder to come by than in the 80's)


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:45 pm 
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The Great American Songbook

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davel Wrote:
Seems to me that a lot of people are lumping together "Drugs" as a whole. Not to turn it into a pot legalization discussion, but it's widely considered less harmful than tobacco and less addictive. Where's the reasoning for maintaining at as something, if caught with, I would get a mandatory jail sentence of 2 years for possession of a good deal of it in my state of Connecticut? Seems silly to me.

And for those naysayers on it, as someone under 21, I can easily say that with one phone call I could have as much weed as my money could buy. Alcohol? Practically a pain in the ass to get, and twice as difficult to get consistantly.

I'd say that the state restrictions on alcohol are working quite nicely, all things considered. Can't think of why one who's thinking of the children would be opposed to a system that has thus far kept a consistant supply of alcohol out of the majority of under-aged people.

(Also, fake ID's, for those not in big cities, are much harder to come by than in the 80's)


this is bullshit. i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

so easy to get alcohol ifyou're underage. kids drink so much nowadays.

_________________
Once she loved a boy. But he did not love her.
His name was Jun. Disillusioned she tried to forget.
She left everything and traveled to the other world.
But life was like a dream.
A series of meaningless movement.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:48 pm 
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davel Wrote:
Can't think of why one who's thinking of the children would be opposed to a system that has thus far kept a consistant supply of alcohol out of the majority of under-aged people.


Have you ever been to college, buddy?


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:31 pm 
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when I was in high school pot was MUCH, MUCH easier to get ahold of than alcohol.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:50 pm 
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the redworm Wrote:
when I was in high school pot was MUCH, MUCH easier to get ahold of than alcohol.


EVERYTHING was easier to get than alcohol

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Senator Smebopolis LooGAR Wrote:
the redworm Wrote:
when I was in high school pot was MUCH, MUCH easier to get ahold of than alcohol.


EVERYTHING was easier to get than alcohol

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:25 pm 
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if 0.7% of me had to be behind bars, i'd choose a pinky toe.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:26 pm 
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the redworm Wrote:
when I was in high school pot was MUCH, MUCH easier to get ahold of than alcohol.


Depends on where you are, I guess. Alcohol was ridiculously accessible in small town northern ON; I was buying booze and getting served in pubs when I was about 17. If you were really wanting drugs, you could find it, but you were going on a serious trip of finding a way in, waiting in the car etc. It was just easier to get pissed.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:36 pm 
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Booze was way easier to get.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:52 pm 
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i wasn't cool in hs. i didn't seek out alci or pot. alci found me late in my sr year. after graduating, i found alci easier to acquire than mary. (i bet you don't remember me.)

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:09 pm 
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gauchebag Wrote:

Or STarbucks for marketing candy-flavoured silly Frappaccino drinks to children so they get hooked on caffeine nice and early?



caffeine fucks up my head and body way more than booze and pot put together, and possibly even more than coke.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:10 pm 
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harry Wrote:
Average $$ spent annually on a k-12 student in California: $6,100
Non-resident tuition at the University of California: $26,000
Average $$ spent annually on a prisoner in California corrections: $35,000
10 years of free anal rapings . . . . priceless

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