from the perspective of only knowing rich suburban kids and poor city kids, i think people join the army as an option for a better life. Not as a failure.

It's a way of getting out the ghetto, and i respect that option from their perspective but it makes me sad for them from my perspective. Because i've never had to come close considering the army an option because of the family i was born into.

And I am also a bit hesitant to buy into that statistic that mostly minorities and poor folks join the army. I know, personally about 25 people in the military or people who have served. Not a single one is black or hispanic and not a single one was from any socioeconomic status lower than middle class. None grew up in the ghetto.

Just because Michael Moore says it's true, doesn't mean it's so. I am not saying that everyone who believes that way is buying into what someone like Michael Moore is saying. And, I am sure there may even be statistics about ratios of people in the military that say the opposite of my personal experience. And, I know that there are significant limitations to "reality" when only guided by personal experience. However, I do live a few short miles from the largest naval base in the world and can tell you that I rarely see military folk that are not white, or filipino/a to be honest.

There may be more blacks in the military in proportion to their population than whites in proportion to their population, but that does not mean that a majority of the military is made up of poor black ghetto babies.

i know poor kids from these rich long island suburbs that do it for exactly that reason...kids who know how shitty the leadership is and know how they fucked theywill be, but they do it anyway for theopportunity it offers.

i feel terrible for them but i respect their balls.

like i said, from MY perspective.
i know it's different in other parts of the country, but where i'm from it's all poor kids.


but it is true that most people in the Kiss army are from higher incomes background.

Lately I do forget that there is a war going on, and I seldom think about the people who are caught up in it and what they are going through.

Thinking about it now, though, just makes me really mad. It makes me feel like I should be really politically active, but then I think about the near hopeless-seeming state of national politics right now. It all seems very much beyond me, very frustrating, and very sad. I'm sick of the underhanded tactics used by supporters of the war, and I'm tired of the total ineptitude of its opponents. The neo-cons are having their way with the world and with our heads, and that's just the way it is. That's probably why I don't think about it much.

and this is the worst part, that people who could actually affect change are disillusioned by all of it.

As a member of the army for almost seventeen years, I take great offense to mr.cracks statement that joining the military is admitting failure. FUCK YOU I am white, from a middle class family. I wasn't trying to escape from anything. Joining the military has been the most rewarding thing I've done and I am proud to serve this great nation. you must really be on crack to believe that shit your spewing

awesome.

see, this is a guy i respect.

the rest of us just sit here and talk shit all day, this guy is changing the world

Do soldiers really "change the world"?

I mean, they're definitely there in the shit, actually having direct physical contact with the change that is going on, but is he really any more directly involved in the events shaping the world? He just follows orders. It's an important job, but so is being a fireman, farmer, sanitation worker, paramedic, etc. Anyone who actually lays their life on the line for their job deserves a ton of respect, and so does anyone else who works to keep us alive, fed, and functioning. That doesn't mean they necessarily deserve credit for changing the world.

you should just apply for your french citizenship now. I am sure you woould fit right in.

i'm just trying to be nice bro.

and he's certainly doing more for the world than i am, whether it's good or bad what he's doing.

i never said anything about you being anything but white and middle class. that has nothing to do with me disagreeing with the choices that you've made in your life; i suspect that you'd have a problem with some of the decisions that i've made. i just don't want people to think that everyone buys this "they're defending our freedom" line; i don't think that what you're doing is defending my freedom in the least. just because it's marketed as "defending the freedom" doesn't make it so. I appreciate your willingness to kill people for my freedom, but i'm equally as willing to eat a sandwich for your tax breaks and they have equally as much to do with one another.