So give me some help here. I have listened to this album many times. A couple of the songs on the album, "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "Sloop John B" are a couple of my favorite Beach Boy's songs, for sure. However, I just don't get why this album is considered to be so great to be compared with other really significant albums from other bands. Why and how is Pet Sounds such an influence to musicians that came after? I think it is an ok album, but I feel like a lot of the songs are really quite boring and I don't quite understand why it is referenced so much as such a big deal.

cue ayah....

Sloop John B was never intended to be on the album but was added by the label. It's my least favorite on the album. Some people call it the first concept album, but I don't agree with that entirely. I do think that the songwriting and production are outstanding. Again, I'm going to bring up historical context. Without having lived through the time frame that the album was released in, it would be helpful to understand what popular music sounded like prior to it's release, and afterwards. It would also be helpful to have some kind of background knowledge of recording and it's limitations at that time. Production wise, that album is a monster. The meat of each song, that is, the melodies and the chord changes that support them are deceptively complex. Like in Wouldn't it be nice, the 8 bar intro firmly outlines A major, and then wham. Bb Major. Without getting into why, trust me that that makes damn near zero sense and he made it work. And it wasn't just jerry-rigging it to work, it was like Wilson was listening to other music based on different sets of rules and it was the rest of western music that was nutty, not him.

But the melodies and lyrics are killer. The chords that support those melodies are often startling to me, but flow really easily to the passive listener. The production is insanely good. So you don't like it, don't kill yourself over it. Maybe it'll click someday, maybe it won't, but if you try and force it... that probably won't do you any good if it hasn't yet.

Reading posts like this makes me sad, because Im reminded how much I am missing due to musical talentlessness and ignorance.. sigh.. back to listening to the Alley Cats.. nice and easy to understand

If it makes you feel better, I have trouble going to shows and just enjoying the fact that people are making music and having fun because my brain gets in the way.

good thread hegel...i wonder the same thing

Phil. I completely understand what you're saying. I think that you're right. My knowledge of the cultural context as well of music composition in general is weak. Let alone the fact that my recording knowledge is limited to a couple experiences ehre and there where the sole production came from me and is pretty weak in that regard. It is not that I do not like the album. I guess I just didn't understand why it was such a big deal. I have never gotten into it past the "sound" of it and the hearing of it. So, I guess if I were a professional musician I would be getting more into the production and the chord progressions. For me, I think I am gonna be stuck in the "passive listener" category.

Not that I understand all of the above, but I think it covers why its influential. But there's also Phil's judgment that the melodies and lyrics are "killer". You don't have to be an expert on composition to have an opinion on that. And I'm closer to Hegel's opinion that the melodies and lyrics are often boring. At its core, music is made to please the ears and not to impress by making unthought of before and difficult chord progressions. If you like the music, that makes it all the more impressive but if you don't like the music who really cares about anything else.

Give me Endless Summer

Hell Im usually better off when my brain gets in the way (or at least, Im used to my brain getting in the way)

What can you do, I dont have time to become versed in everything, so you just accept and move on (or make your kids live your alternative lives)

Also, produced in MONO...

AND

It was a pretty heady time. Not just what came before and after it, but what it inspired (didn't Paul Macca shit himself and try to out do it, and then Wilson tried to out do them and went crazy?)

and Sloop John B is in the top 3 of my Listmania -- I love that fucking song

just can't get into it. have tried a dozen times, but ain't feeling it.

Yeah, I can appreciate it for what it was at the time with all those coolio harmonies and great production but the Beach Boys remain a 60's parents band to me.

Plus, I really don't like surfer music/culture so...

I don't dig it that much either but you're describing endless summer, not pet sounds.

There are plenty of good reasons to reject pet sounds...that isn't one of 'em.

phil has spoken to the things i could never have put into words.
the only thing i can say is that it's lush.
if you really, really listen to the music it's mind blowing and i love the innocence of the lyrics.
this album touches me in so many ways and while it came out the summer i turned 10 it's something that just evolved for me as i got older.

if you ever get a chance to listen to the last disc on the box set, it's full of stripped down sessions of vocal and orchestra performances. very cool.

i'm with phil in that if you're not into, you're not into it. no big deal but for me brian wilson always takes me places i love spending time. (aawwwww....)

I can't help it if every time I hear those dulcet harmonies I think of 60's teenagers with crewcuts driving Woody's with their surfboards on the top rack, heading to the beach with their favorite gal.


Maybe it's just me but their music is like eating fudge that's just too sweet to eat cuz it hurts my teeth.

Lush is a good description of their music though.

Its not just you

I like this album a lot, and there are only a couple on songs on it that I don't really dig, mainly due to the lyrics. For me there's no intellectualizing or deep analysis going on when I listen to it. I simply like it, especially "God Only Knows", "Sloop John B.", and "Wouldn't It Nice".

As far as important, it's been widely said that there would be no Sgt. Pepper if not for Pet Sounds.

It's kinda sad that threads like this about this particular album seem to pop up pretty regularly. I can sort of understand it though, like if you were to replace Pet Sounds with Forver Changes. There's an album that I can respect for its vision and complexity, but aside from a few songs, I just can't really get into it.

I don't think it's a matter of not respecting vision or complexity for me. I guess I never really noticed it being all that complex. But, from my previous posts I think you (generally) can see why that may be. Like I said, I don't dislike the album, but there are a handful of tunes that just kind of bore me, particularly when I compare them to songs from the same album like Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows. Those two songs, in particular, seem like they don't even actually belong with the rest of the album. I respect the album, but I am sometimes baffled, most likely due to ignorance, as to why people would say something like, "there would be no Sgt. Peppers if there were no Pet Sounds". That's another question. Why is Sgt. Peppers so great? And this question comes up because I have very very little experience or knowledge of the Beatles. It's a question raised out of genuine curiosity, not a subtle attempt to trash the album itself.

So you don't have Sgt. Peppers? To me, that's closer to a concept album. Expounded on multitracking techniques that Spector and Wilson pioneered. Another facking amazing album on every level to me.

I love the pacing on both albums, to me all the songs belong, but compositionally, Brian Wilson is way more complex than the beatles who are pretty damn elegant on their own, especially in their later output.

Naw man. For whatever reason the Beatles have mostly escaped my music catalog. I have Abbey Road and Help. I really like Abbey Road, but I just have never gotten into them. It's not that they're not good or important, I just haven't gotten there. Maybe someday soon I will have a Beatles discovery month. But as of yet, it has not taken place.

I am sure I should be ashamed of myself, but as of yet, I am not there either.

this entire thread is an internal dialogue i've been having for quite some time...

total high school crush

ok..i am a huge huge beatles fan since i can remember......

and i admit, i might not have gave pet sounds a fair shake. to be honest, i dont think i have actually listened to the album until like last year.

so with that in mind - could someone YSI me a kick ass song from the all mighty beach boys and show me the light! - please not the song, kokomo

More important things to note about Pet Sounds (that don't neccesarily have to do with the music)

1 - The Beatles were the first out of the gate in making what some people consider the first true ALBUM - Rubber Soul. Pre-Rubber Soul records were simply the hit song or two, with 10 more tracks of filler and covers. The Beatles apparently dissed the old format and purposefully attempted to make an album full of hit singles rather than a cash grab platter with only one or two good songs. The Beach Boys were second out of the gate on this front, but Pet Sounds took things a step further by not only making a complete ALBUM, but one that was more than "just a collection of radio hits."
IMO Pet Sounds is one of those albums that should be listened to from start to finish. it is (to me) a piece of musical art, rather than merely a string of really songs. i hope that makes some sense somehow.

It should also be important to note that the record was meant to please music lovers/nerds like *puts arm around phil's shoulder* us, and wasn't geared toward the regular radio blastin' public. I think Pet Sounds gains a lot of recognition nowadays because it was one of those albums that was critically acclaimed, a huge hit in the UK, but relatively a dud in the US...

bort