Does anyone know anything about Alcoholics Anonymous? I just got a call from a high school friend who is thinking of going. She's been having a rough time lately and it's affecting her home life. I don't know what to tell her and I only have friends who have been through OA and NA.

Thanks.

I think AA is much more supportive than NA, tell her to try out a bunch of meeting places- until she finds some that she is comfortable with. If she really feels uncomfortable with the whole idea, have her go to an open meeting first (open meetings are open to non alcoholics, ie. friends family)

its easy to find meetings in her area

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/en_find_meeting.cfm

I had a friend who used to go in college. He would go and just listen. It's not required for you to say anything. If they get to her she can just say her first name and that she just came to listen.

Sometimes just listening to others problems and knowing that others are going through some tough shit too can be comforting.

Tell her it can't hurt and the very least she'll get a cup of coffee out of it.


My two cents.

My mother in law goes to two meetings a day, it's totally replaced her social scene, and she's a lot happier for it. i don't like them for their religious bent, but i've gotta say that i've heard more successes than failures from those that commit to it.

there really isnt any religious bent.. just that you think there is a higher power out there, that higher power can be anything, even a rock I suppose..
worship the rock (not the crack rock)

yeah, but you also "have" to admit that alcohol is something that you're powerless to conquor without the help of that "higher power". that's close enough for me to feel uneasy with it-- that said, my mother in law treats the 12 steps as an ala carte menu, so she's made it work for her.

I hear you..and the way it seems to me, its to keep you from saying "I can handle this myself" -- but I hear you.

Their religious bent? No matter what 12-step program you are in, one of the steps is going to be relying on a higher power. They typically just ask taht you have some sort of spiritual life. It doesn't require, God, Church, Jesus, Allah, Hinduism. But, there is an offering. So bring cash. I did notice that when someone would get up and talk about their specific religion people would boo and ridicule those members during the meeting. I wouldn't say their religious bent is that significant. Although, this was in CA, so maybe there are just more heathens out there. haha

I spent two years going to meetings due to my previous job. I think that AA can be good because you can link up with a strong support outside of actual meetings that can become friends and your life won't be constantly surrounded by the things that you feel you are addicted to and the people that are "dragging" you down unless you choose to be around it. The social interaction is definitely a plus.

There are a lot of good people in AA. There are a lot of shady suckers too. But, if your friend is honest, open, and willing then AA can be a good start for recovery. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

Make sure to find meetings that are lively. Lots of people. The small ones can be good, but they tend to be really clique-y and it is hard to really feel welcome in the "cozy" meetings. I found NA to be a little more disorganized and less established than AA. But, AA members are pretty hardcore about the meeting only consisting of the topic of alcohol, so if drugs are a major issue for your friend I would suggest seeking out some NA meetings as well.

AA saved my family.
It works, I know people don't like the "religion" but you can take it or leave it. It creates a great support network and sponsors can become like family.

I met Elton John at a meeting once! (he has talked about his membership in interviews so I can talk about it). It was like 15 years ago in Paris

to quote somebody I know very well "AA made me want to stay sober, NA made me want to get high"

Although the choice of "higher power" may be what is semantically bothering you, the issue is that they are powerless to conquer it on their own. That is the nature of addiction. It takes over. Whether or not you need god, a good set of friends, or a healthy hobby to conquer it, it's still a "higher power". It can be anything that helps you deal with the addiction "one day at a time". They always say in the meetings, relying on yourself got you where you are. It's sort of where the idea of powerlessness came from. If you could conquer it on your own, you would.

they have the newcomers meetings
and it can totally be fun sometimes too.

AA has positively changed the direction of several people who are pretty close to me. I can't stress enough how impressed I am with the AA organization and its people (and I'm currently well down the atheist path, despite growing up in the church).

i think it's more than a semantic issue. the 12 steps don't mention anything about getting a new hobby. Relying on themselves didn't get the alcoholic where they are. Making bad choices repeatedly did. In my opinion admitting that you are powerless over alcohol is giving up responsibility. Yes some people are more physically likely to become addicted than others, but i think most people KNOW that through family history or just knowing themselves. You have to admit that you made choices to reach a point in your life that you need help. I think that's a much stronger thing to face than simply admitting that you are powerless over booze.

I don't think i could ever give credit to a higher power to "returning me to sanity". It would happen due to a massive life change and the faith of family and friends (possibly a whole new set of friends, but friends) All very difficult things that i would have to decide upon.

It works very well for some people, and i have no problem with people using it. If it helps them and gives them a sense of community that is wonderufl. But i dont' see how an athiest or even an agnostic could get past the 2nd step without lying to the whole room.

and the only reason i care that AA exists is because the government can force you to go. Otherwise i prbobably wouldn't be in this thread.


good luck to your friend.

these people are way more pissed of than me

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

I guess I wasn't clear. All those things listed would and could qualify as the "higher power" in AA.

really? i don't see how those could be a higher power.

Yeah, the whole powerlessness issue and the religious stuff is a little weird.

But when it comes down to it, anything that keeps people from killing themselves should be seen as OK. So more power to yr friend!

That is pretty awesome. I say it can't hurt, but I mean, I agree with the "just stop" sentiment.

Not in AA myself, but probably know more people who are than who aren't.

I can understand some misgivings about the program, but in my experience, especially for people who have tried over and over to quit, AA is about the best solution there is. When I sit around and theorize about its many aspects, I can poke many a hole. But, results are results and I've not seen anythign work better.

Dozens of people in my life have gone in and out of rehab canters of all kinds and always started back up with whatever their drug of choice was without doing something else (AA) to keep themselves straight with only a couple of exceptions...people that were sent there but were not really addicts. And, I've never seen the whole...just pull yourself up by the bootstraps... thing work for anybody with serious booze/drug problems.

What they do is provide a supportive, structured way of dealing with a problem that will likely haunt people who deal with it for the rest of their lives. For the program to work, people do need to get involved in the community aspect of it all. The higher power thing is important, but probably much less important than the emotional support of a community of like-minded individuals. Working an AA program really is a massive life change...not some sort of magic.

Oh yeah...and for dealing with drunks...don't let them get their way. If they're being assholes...it may well be because they have a serious problem. But, if they won't swallow some pride and get help...you've got no sort of moral responsibility to take their shit.

Yeah. Essentially, it is a faith in something outside of yourself. I mean, you don't necessarily want to have your higher power be your mother. But, positive friends, a religion, a healthy hobby. Basically, anyything can be your higher power. I admit, I think the origins are at least indirectly tied to some form of protestant Christianity, but over the years the term higher power has morphed away from direct correlation to God, Jesus, Christianity, or any god at all. This is all based on my 400 some meetings and working with teenage addicts. I experienced a very limited portion of AA in terms of geographical location. I haven't been to meetings all across the country. But, I was required due to my job to be pretty deep into it. I think a sponsor and AA itself would argue that they want the higher power to be something spiritual. But overall it seems that AA is not too picky when it comes to the definition of "higher power". I think that's why it is termed that way. It is something beyond yourself that is a guide, a positive crutch, and a motivation to succeed and overcome without complete self-reliance.

Joe, I'll yield a bit to your experiences, but I'm having a hard time justifying stamp collecting or my Beanie Babies as a "higher power", especially in the context of the steps, taken from AA's website:

THE TWELVE STEPS
OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol & that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I think arguing over the god factor can be silly - the fact that the program has worked for a lot of people speaks way more to me.

Oh, you mean like Scientology?

if scientology breaks someone from an addiction that hurts themselves, their family, etc. then so be it. I am not going to argue this over the internet but I will say, from first-hand experience, that AA changed my life.