http://tinyurl.com/euap8

I've never really liked the Orioles that much, but I think it has a lot to do with their owner. Therefore, I wholeheartedly support this walkout.

I heard about this being organized. I'm impressed so many people did it.

I'm no fan of Angelos, but the problems were there in the mid-1980s, well before he took the reins.

Fu,
What do you think of this article?

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... s-must-go/

I'll have to read it tomorrow. I was afraid I was going to fall asleep in traffic at 5:30, and I'm just trying to wrap up a few things so I can crash.

Well, I skimmed quickly, and this



is dead wrong, unless you forget that 1988 happened. Last time I looked, losing your first 21 games, then 100+ on the season, ain't exactly a winning season.

In a nutshell, the Orioles were so damn good from the 1960s to 1983 was the strength of the farm system, and The Oriole Way, which emphasized teaching the same skills, strategy and philosophy all the way up the ladder. They also developed gobs of fantastic pitchers, which is what they've been missing for the past 20 years.

The success in the late 1990s was from buying players, not developing. It was only a Band-Aid, not a solution.

Quick chime in before bed. Angelos is a hack. He has no business being a MLB owner. The Orioles were a golden franchise. We had name value, and a great city around us. Hell, what more PR could we get from a state of the art stadium, Cal, etc etc etc. Angelos drove that all down the drains. It really boggles my mind. He's right when he says tix are cheap, but thats only because Camden Yards isn't packing like it did. Trust me, if the seats were filled, you'd be charging $45, Pete. This transcends "oh, the O's are losing, I'm going to bellyache". No, this is about utter disregard for establishing pride back to a community who has supported the team through thick and thin. The one thing that worries me is Peter trying to move the team. While its a loooooooooong shot, that talk has been fed before.

more links:

http://orioleshangout.com/
http://www.birdsinthebelfry.com/

fansites with some walkout info.

by the way--I've always thought he looked sleazy.

Ninja Tunas take 2-0 Captain's League Championship Series lead over top-seeded Magnum with 10-7 come-from-behind win tonight. So much fun.

Again, don't take this as defense of Angelos, but the wheels were already coming off well before he got there. After winning the World Series in 1983, the Orioles didn't finish higher than 4th until 1989's "Why Not?" year, which was sort of a fluke anyway. From 1986-1988 the O's only won 40% of their games, including 1986, the first losing season since 1967.

From 1984-1992, the Orioles won 46% of their games. Since Angelos took over in 1993, and not including this year, they've won 48%. It's not stellar, but as I said before, things fell apart before Angelos got there. Who was the last pitcher the Orioles drafted, developed and sustained, outside of Mike Mussina plus handing Ben McDonald a pass for injuries?

When Angelos came in, he threw a bunch of money at already established players. Lee Smith, Rafael Palmeiro, Albert Belle, Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla, Kevin Brown, Roberto Alomar, B.J. Surhoff, David Wells, Kent Mercker, Randy Myers, Joe Carter, Jimmy Key.

I don't think Angelos is wrong to not dump so much money into established players, especially when you know the Yankees & Red Sox will outspend you, and we've also seen how well that's paid off for Boston.

I also think it's unfair to criticize the Orioles for not pursuing Vladimir Guerrero or Carlos Delgado as strongly. They've had plenty of bats for years. Let's not imitate the Texas Rangers, here.

I think the Orioles lost their way, but it happened 25 years ago, and it will take time to build it back up. I'm sure it would make some fans happy, but if Angelos bought up a bunch of players to win one World Series like Boston did, I don't think that would really help the organization in the long run.

[quote="Flying Rabbit]The Orioles were a golden franchise. We had name value, and a great city around us. [/quote]

Tell it to the Pirates and Royals fans. They had the same thing.

Tell it to the Pirates and Royals fans. They had the same thing.[/quote]

Completely agree. Let's be honest, not every team is going to have a great showing or even be contenders year in and year out. What makes things bearable though is the atmosphere, the comraderie, and the overall community feel of going to the park and sharing in the experience. This is something I feel has been lost by the O's. Perhaps it was bound to happen when they left 33rd st. Camden Yards is great, and I love it, but when I'm sitting in the seats, sometimes I feel like I'm alone in cheering. That, of course comes down to the fans. When the Yankees and BoSox outnumber the O's fans, we have a problem.

Fu--Nah, I don't take that as an Angelos defense. I see where you are coming from. No, in retrospect I don't blame Flanny for not going after marquee players like Vlad and Delgado as much. I'm in the camp though that believes pitching will bring us back to prominance, which is nothing said new. Let's also be honest about 84-89, there were some craptacular coaching regimes in there. Cal Sr., Frank Robinson. Neither were great coaches in my eyes. I do still blame Angelos for much of the dissent within the system. He just isn't savvy enough to be an owner, and at least owners who are like him surround themselves with people who know their stuff. Sid Thrift....don't get me started. To be fair though, most of this talk wouldn't be happening if the past 2-3 seasons weren't downers. Don't forget we aren't that far removed from ALCS/Wild Card appearances in the past 10 years. People have always argued about Angelos since his inception as owner.

Thrift just died a few days ago.

I'm amazed this thread is still on the first page and that it generated a discussion. I knew we had a few O's fans, but this is impressive.
I really only follow them because the booking agent/event manager at the arena I work for is a huge O's fan. Every other management person I work with is a die hard Cubs fan.

Yeah, it was funny to read about how he had an eye for talent. I guess he did acquire Jorge Julio, Rodrigo Lopez and Jay Gibbons for nothing, and Melvin Mora and BJ Ryan for very little, but most of those players had little impact. Solid players, a few stars but one of the stars is a reliever and you don't build winners out of star relievers.

It's a baseball wide problem, not just the Orioles, and why the game is pretty much headed down the tubes. Too many teams, and too many teams jazzed on get good quick schemes, which rarely work.

What was the last team that was really fucking good, built mainly around a farm system? 1991 Braves and Twins? MAYBE all the way on up to the 1997 INdians, but most folks who are growing talent are basically farm teams for the yanks and sox anyway.

Tell it to the Pirates and Royals fans. They had the same thing.[/quote]

The Royals suck because their owner died and John Schuerholz left for the Braves in 1990. Their current owner Walmart Executive David Glass is a cheap bastard, who rivals the owner of the Clippers. I don't think they could compete with the Red Sox or Yankees for payroll, but they could easily be up there with their central division rivals and compete for the division, if they had an owner like Kauffmann

this is the arguement i keep giving for the european relegation/promotion system. dont reward deadbeat owners by keeping their teams in the top divison of their sport. punish their bad play by relegation and the lower revenue streams of the lower leagues and give someone else a chance to either innovate or outspend.

A-fucking-men. I loved Memorial Stadium. I loved 33rd Street.

Don't get me wrong, Camden Yards is fantastic, but especially for the first 10 years, it was a social gathering rather than a ballpark. It's gotten better, but that's more due to only 15,000 people showing up than anything else.

I like crabcakes as much as the next guy, but when they started boutiquing ballpark food with fancy food & beer from outside St. Louis & Milwaukee, shit got all out of whack.

I remember going to Memorial in like 88, and the grass being dead, and lil n*ggas like Young Avon on the lurk, so don't gimme that

Camden was AWESOME when it opened, but so many teams copied the look and feel that it suffered. It is still the first and the best. That said, I remember being there in 93 or 94 and trying to get the fans in my section to put on "Rally Caps" in the 8th when they were down 4 and had scored 3 and the bases were loaded, and they were more interested in their beers.

Boog's is about as boutique as ballpark fare should get. Hell, give me 2 dogs with onions and mustard and a pretzel and I'm straight.

It's also a shame that the Royals' dowfall coincides with switching ROYALS Stadium from turf to natural grass...

This has everything to do with the coaching staff, from Earl right on down the line. They did the teaching and developing that made it all happen.

I think the '95 Braves that won it all probably had more homegrown guys than '91 when you had all those people Schuerholz brought in (Lonnie, T.P., Pena, Breem, Scrotus Nixon, etc.)

I've always wanted to go to Camden Yards BTW. Seems like an awesome stadium.

On the bright side, the O's may suck, but they ain't the fucking Cubs.

True enough.

Oh shit! There's a Orioles vs. Rangers game from 1986 on MASN right now. It also brings up another Angelos fuck-up: letting Jon Miller go to San Francisco.

This game is awesome. The Goofy Bird hats, 33rd Street, Diamond Vision, jheri curls, Ken Dixon. Damn.

Oh shit, Jim Traber! And Don Slaught with that giant mask thing he used to wear when he was batting.

Actually, the best part is that the players are wearing stirrups.

Haha. Ken Dixon walked the first four batters he faced, then coughed up a grand slam to Toby Harrah. Oh shit, Oddibe McDowell.