Hell's Bells

duckyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:51 pm

479

You guys probably won't hear about this on the east coast.

shmoo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:20 am

I heard hours ago. But I guess I'm in the midwest.

Promethium · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:54 am

I knew he was up there, but had no clue he was that close to Lee Smith. I've always thought Lee Smith and Eckersley put up astronomical save numbers that were almost untouchable.
Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

FT · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:16 pm

Two words: Michael. Young.

(The only claim to fame my pathetic Rangers have is defeating "automatic" NL closers in recent All-Star games, such as M.Y. over Hoffman and Hank Blalock over Eric Gagne a couple of years ago. Seriously. It's all I've got.)

Z · **Joined:** Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm **Posts:** 7979

Promethium Wrote:

Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

he's about 66 back.

Promethium · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:39 pm

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

he's about 66 back.

Thanks, I knew he had to be relatively close despite the fact that the Yankees have had enough top notch pitchers on their staff in recent years to pitch a decent number of complete games.

I've always thought barring a major injury the record would be his at some point.

Z · **Joined:** Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm **Posts:** 7979

Promethium Wrote:

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

he's about 66 back.

Thanks, I knew he had to be relatively close despite the fact that the Yankees have had enough top notch pitchers on their staff in recent years to pitch a decent number of complete games.

i think it has more to do with the yankees winning by large margins and rivera simply not having as many save chances as hoffman might. if you look through the yankees game logs for 2004 and 2005 (only a sampling), you'll see weeks where he didn't get a save because they either lost, were ahead, or he came in during tie games. i tend to think that san diego plays a lot more low-scoring and/or close games, which could be why hoffman's percentage of saves/team wins is higher than rivera's.

duckyboy · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:48 pm

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

he's about 66 back.

Thanks, I knew he had to be relatively close despite the fact that the Yankees have had enough top notch pitchers on their staff in recent years to pitch a decent number of complete games.

i think it has more to do with the yankees winning by large margins and rivera simply not having as many save chances as hoffman might. if you look through the yankees game logs for 2004 and 2005 (only a sampling), you'll see weeks where he didn't get a save because they either lost, were ahead, or he came in during tie games. i tend to think that san diego plays a lot more low-scoring and/or close games, which could be why hoffman's percentage of saves/team wins is higher than rivera's.

When the hell in the past few years have the Yankees had top notch pitchers to go complete games? Jared Wright? Pavano? Maybe Tim Redding?

Rivera is two years younger than Hoffman. If Hoffman retired this year Rivera could easily surpass him. It all remains to be seen. Rivera relies on a fastball whereas Hoffman a change-up, so potentially advantage Hoffman there (as they age).

You say the Yankees have played in more high scoring games, which is no doubt true, but you don't realize how fucking bad the Padres have been for most of they years Hoffman has pitched. He's saved at least 30 games for the past 11 seasons, I think, and there were some Padres teams during that span in the kind of territory the Pirates and Cubs and in right now. Hoffman also has a higher save percentage than Rivera (all star games withstanding).

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:59 pm

I love the guy, Wish the Braves had gotten him years ago. 2nd best change up ever, FRANK.

Promethium · **Posted:** Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:55 am

duckyboy Wrote:

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Z Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

Wonder how close Mariano Rivera is to Hoffman.

he's about 66 back.

Thanks, I knew he had to be relatively close despite the fact that the Yankees have had enough top notch pitchers on their staff in recent years to pitch a decent number of complete games.

i think it has more to do with the yankees winning by large margins and rivera simply not having as many save chances as hoffman might. if you look through the yankees game logs for 2004 and 2005 (only a sampling), you'll see weeks where he didn't get a save because they either lost, were ahead, or he came in during tie games. i tend to think that san diego plays a lot more low-scoring and/or close games, which could be why hoffman's percentage of saves/team wins is higher than rivera's.

I'm not just talking the last couple years, I'm talking the last decade with Mussina, Wells, all the Cubans, Big Unit, etc.

When the hell in the past few years have the Yankees had top notch pitchers to go complete games? Jared Wright? Pavano? Maybe Tim Redding?

Rivera is two years younger than Hoffman. If Hoffman retired this year Rivera could easily surpass him. It all remains to be seen. Rivera relies on a fastball whereas Hoffman a change-up, so potentially advantage Hoffman there (as they age).

You say the Yankees have played in more high scoring games, which is no doubt true, but you don't realize how fucking bad the Padres have been for most of they years Hoffman has pitched. He's saved at least 30 games for the past 11 seasons, I think, and there were some Padres teams during that span in the kind of territory the Pirates and Cubs and in right now. Hoffman also has a higher save percentage than Rivera (all star games withstanding).

Hell's Bells

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