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Beatles or Beach Boys?
Beatles 85%  85%  [ 45 ]
Beach Boys 15%  15%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 53
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:24 pm 
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Dalen Wrote:
The Beatles over everyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:25 pm 
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It's not a comparison I feel I need to make. It's especially tough to compare them given Wilson's meltdown and subsequent lack of production.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:20 pm 
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I like Phil's explanation. I think it is more directly to the point of the why as opposed to just saying, "if you don't get it it's your fault". What a silly thing to say.

I am with Promethium in the whole: parents never listened to them, very limited exposure to the beatles, grew up where the beatles were not always referenced, and as per my other thread I had a weird slow/late start into music.

I think it's helpful to get the fuller explanations of why bands like the beatles are so great. Just because "we" ask the question doesn't mean we're being "Beatles haters". Not that I care whether or not I am one. I think what's more outrageous than people not getting the beatles importance due to ignorance or actual distaste is the fact that people choose to insult those that don't. It makes me chuckle. Some people ought to just calm down. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:38 pm 
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harry Wrote:
Mick the Stripper Wrote:
the Beatles definitely shaped music way more than the Beach Boys. They were far more influential. That's for damn sure. The Stones wouldn't have existed in the same copacity if it weren't for the Beatles.


Now I was there, I remember when the boys hit the stage of the Ed Sullivan Show and changed the world forever. And I respect Prince of Darkness as much as anyone on the board, especially his technical knowledge of music... but KonstantinL's comments are well held. Musically, the Beatles were all about timing... and there were influences bouncing around in each way... Rubber Soul wouldn't have happened without Dylan... Sgt. Pepper's wouldn't have happened without Beach Boys... actually none of it would have happened with acid.

But, at this distance and from this perpective, it was about timing and culture more than music.... And given the vortex of culture and events that seemed to generate from whaterver the Fab Four presented, they were the greatest pop band in history.


I'm a big fan of listening to music with historical perspective in mind, but that starteed for me with the classical music thing. And you're right the timing was perfect. I think that it was a combination of timing, talent, years of cutting their teeth in clubs, hunger, songwriting, etc.

For those with limited beatles experience i'll try and put together a present for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Prince of Darkness Wrote:
For those with limited beatles experience i'll try and put together a present for you.


i want to hear YOUR version of and your bird can sing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:33 pm 
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ayah Wrote:
Prince of Darkness Wrote:
For those with limited beatles experience i'll try and put together a present for you.


i want to hear YOUR version of and your bird can sing.


dot head accent or serious take?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:35 pm 
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serious, you fool.
but it IS nice to have a choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:37 pm 
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You alway get a choice. I'm going to have to figure out how to tackle that dual guitar lead, but i'm up for the challenge.

I'll start working on it.

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I don't eat it every morning, I do however, pull it out sometimes.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:38 pm 
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Prince of Darkness Wrote:
You alway get a choice. I'm going to have to figure out how to tackle that dual guitar lead, but i'm up for the challenge.

I'll start working on it.


I've heard Geoff Benge play that fucker.
That fucker.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:48 pm 
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PopTodd Wrote:
Prince of Darkness Wrote:
You alway get a choice. I'm going to have to figure out how to tackle that dual guitar lead, but i'm up for the challenge.

I'll start working on it.


I've heard Geoff Benge play that fucker.
That fucker.


I was in a band with him. He just randomly dropped it into a tune and it worked.

The crazy thing is, he doesn't really know what he's doing, he just does it. Great ear.

I'm going to figure it out in a lower register for an acoustic version.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:32 pm 
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alongwaltz Wrote:
No one's ever properly explained why the Beatles deserve the hero-worship treatment or why they are put in a category as "indisputably, without a question, the greatest band of all-time".


I think I can put this in a context you'll understand. You know how you feel about the Lowest of the Low? Now multiply that by, oh, 100 million. That's the Beatles.



And btw - I cannot fathom how someone can so adore the Lowest of the Low and remain unmoved by the vast bulk of the Beatles catalogue. I mean, the Lowest of the Low were Nick Lowe imitators, and if you can't hear the Beatles in Nick Lowe you just. can't. hear.

Drinky Wrote:
I can sort of imagine why guys like you and Radcliffe aren't Beatles fans given the different context of when you grew up. "Phony Beatlemania" and all that being something to rebel against.


That's true to an extent. I was pretty mouthy against the Beatles in my teens - it was a childish reaction to their omnipresence, because they were everywhere (Vegas hacks were crooning "Yesterday" on the Dean Martin Variety Hour fer chrissakes) - but the truth of the matter is that their impact as a band, and their success as songwriters, and their (excuse me for the term, Haq) chops were undeniable. Even to snotty teenagers.

Plus, I've always been an unrepentent Lennon fan.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:45 pm 
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OK, I guess I misinterpreted before.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:34 pm 
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Sen. LooGAR (D - MEH) Wrote:
I have said it before, and no one quite gets it, but every note played since 1964 was influenced by The Beatles. All the music you claim to like is in existence because of The Beatles. I understand holding unorthodox and indefensible opinions, but The Beatles greatness is FACT.

Loogs is correct on all counts. I would also like to add if it were not for Bob Dylan's influence after 1964, the Beatle catalog may have turned out quite differently. The Beatles in return were partly responsible for Bob's sudden affinity for the electric guitar.

I guess it's apparently 'cool' for indie kids to dislike The Beatles.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:19 pm 
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mcaputo Wrote:
I guess it's apparently 'cool' for indie kids to dislike The Beatles.


God, I hate it when people say shit like this. I really, really hate it.

And I'm not trying to defend anyone's dislike of The Beatles. It would be real nice, though, if some people here would stop reducing other people's opinions - no matter how silly they may be - to mindless trend-following.

If there's one thing I can say about the variety of people on this board, it's that I believe they are in fact acting autonomously when it comes their musical tastes, no matter how bad they may be. I will at least give everyone the benefit of the doubt in that respect even when certain groups around here seem to share a brain.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
mcaputo Wrote:
I guess it's apparently 'cool' for indie kids to dislike The Beatles.


God, I hate it when people say shit like this. I really, really hate it.

And I'm not trying to defend anyone's dislike of The Beatles. It would be real nice, though, if some people here would stop reducing other people's opinions - no matter how silly they may be - to mindless trend-following.

If there's one thing I can say about the variety of people on this board, it's that I believe they are in fact acting autonomously when it comes their musical tastes, no matter how bad they may be. I will at least give everyone the benefit of the doubt in that respect even when certain groups around here seem to share a brain.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. And from my recollection of the thread there was really only one person that said they disliked them and I assumed they were just being silly and sarcastic because they probably don't care as much about who is more important between the two bands than some of you all apparently do. Even if they came to realize that the Beatles were uber-influential it probably would not affect their current taste in music. The only other "dissent" that I remember is people saying they just didn't understand, not that they hated the beatles or anyone that defended the beatles--even if those defending them used a bit of ad hominem to reinforce their argument.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:57 pm 
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Prince of Darkness Wrote:
I'm going to have to figure out how to tackle that dual guitar lead, but i'm up for the challenge.

I'll start working on it.


Send me that fucker, but then I need something to record on too I guess. Dammit. If it's a "can be recorded on Busty's Mac" thing, send it. I'll give it a crack.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:20 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
mcaputo Wrote:
I guess it's apparently 'cool' for indie kids to dislike The Beatles.


God, I hate it when people say shit like this. I really, really hate it.

And I'm not trying to defend anyone's dislike of The Beatles. It would be real nice, though, if some people here would stop reducing other people's opinions - no matter how silly they may be - to mindless trend-following.


Yeah, nothing says "sheep" and "follower" like not liking the Beatles.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:34 pm 
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mcaputo Wrote:
Sen. LooGAR (D - MEH) Wrote:
I have said it before, and no one quite gets it, but every note played since 1964 was influenced by The Beatles. All the music you claim to like is in existence because of The Beatles. I understand holding unorthodox and indefensible opinions, but The Beatles greatness is FACT.

Loogs is correct on all counts. I would also like to add if it were not for Bob Dylan's influence after 1964, the Beatle catalog may have turned out quite differently. The Beatles in return were partly responsible for Bob's sudden affinity for the electric guitar.

I guess it's apparently 'cool' for indie kids to dislike The Beatles.
\

Thanks Pal, I knew i could count on you

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
Billzebub Wrote:
Hegel-Oh's Wrote:
I think the question is more of a "why is every note from them on influenced by the beatles"?


Because every one of 'em is lifted from American blues, rock-a-billy, and r&b artists.


Why would this apply any less to the Stones?


Oh, it does. It does. It also applies to Them, The Pretty Things, The Who, The Kinks, to a lesser extent the DC-5, The Yardbirds, etc. etc.

What I prefer in The Stones, Pretty Things, Kinks, Who, et al. is the lack of sugar coating--to me there is something more genuine and respectful in what the grittier bands were doing--the Beatles, at least until Rubber Soul, made this stuff so sterile.

I don't deny the Beatles' impact, and they have a few songs in their catalogue that I really like--but on the whole I've little use for them--give me Revolver and a handfull of singles and I'm good to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:52 pm 
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thankfully most of the anti-beatles crowd are the people i hold the least respect for on the board (alongwaltz, promethium etc)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:55 pm 
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Beatles.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:00 pm 
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Billzebub Wrote:
What I prefer in The Stones, Pretty Things, Kinks, Who, et al. is the lack of sugar coating--to me there is something more genuine and respectful in what the grittier bands were doing--the Beatles, at least until Rubber Soul, made this stuff so sterile.


Yep.

Many other bands were trying new things concurrently with the Beatles. But those acts' influence on future music is generally subsumed, somewhat erroneously, under the Beatles mantle.

The Beatles "changed everything" only in that that's how we choose to remember it.

My oldest brothers were listening to The Pretty Things far more than the Beatles. And The Who & The Kinks have informed countless bands.

Not that I don't love the Beatles, because I do, but current pop culture remembers musical history a bit differently than it actually happened.

Beatles influenced 9 out of every 10 power pop bands and singer-songwriters-with-hooks type performers, but I hear as much Jagger, Bowie, Townsend and Davies in modern music as I do McCartney. And that doesn't even begin to cover all the Joni Mitchell and Neil Young-inspired artists who owe little to The Beatles.

What I do believe is that the Beatles combined brilliant hooks with clever lyrics AND were several steps ahead of where music was at each moment of their career while still knowing how to stay in the limelight.

Their studio experimentation was an inspiration for many other acts and that did help change where music went, but I attribute their actual influence more to extremely memorable tunes that somehow stayed both unusual and populist.

Anyway, they were great. They pushed studio sound boundaries. But other acts also shaped the future of music in much quieter ways.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:17 pm 
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frosted Wrote:
]Beatles influenced 9 out of every 10 power pop bands and singer-songwriters-with-hooks type performers, but I hear as much Jagger, Bowie, Townsend and Davies in modern music as I do McCartney. And that doesn't even begin to cover all the Joni Mitchell and Neil Young-inspired artists who owe little to The Beatles.

What I do believe is that the Beatles combined brilliant hooks with clever lyrics AND were several steps ahead of where music was at each moment of their career while still knowing how to stay in the limelight.

Their studio experimentation was an inspiration for many other acts and that did help change where music went, but I attribute their actual influence more to extremely memorable tunes that somehow stayed both unusual and populist.

Anyway, they were great. They pushed studio sound boundaries. But other
acts also shaped the future of music in much quieter ways.


To be inspired by Young and Mitchell is to be inspired by The Beatles.

To compare your brothers to today's average music fan is to compare your average obner poster with your average VIBE subscriber...sure we all love music, bit c'mon.

Funny thing is, The Beatles thought they would be called for copying Motown, and Motown artists admit to biting from The Beatles,

You can TRY to deny The Beatlesm, but you look REAL SILLY doing so.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:19 pm 
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Phil = best, seemingly most intelligent/informed, least snarky poster on the board.

I can almost tolerate the rest of the "your a fucking idiott" (in so many words) posters thanks to people like fspoon.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:23 pm 
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So, I guess the Obner Code says I need to insult you now or something.


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