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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:52 pm 
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frostingspoon
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he heh. They recruit here. One of us interned there this summer.


Not I, thank you. I leave that for others.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:38 pm 
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Street Teamer

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I'm also a full-time MBA so I can speak about this with a reasonable amount of credibility. My school is top 20 but not an ivy so really not that much more prestigious than UW-M.

I can tell you that my (summer) internship paid 7K per month, which equates to 43 / hr, plus housing. That's about average for us, I think, and all firms know what the competitive rate is. If the conversation with the HR rep is as you posted, you should probably stay away. If he's comparing your salary to one at McDonald's, either the job isn't what you think it is or he is a terrible HR rep. Either way, it's not a positive sign (short-term or long-term).

If I were you, I'd simply turn it down and tell them that the pay rate is not competitive. If they're truly interested, they'll come back to you. If not, it's not an opportunity worth worrying about.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:42 pm 
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frostingspoon
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He wasn't HR, he was functional - my would-be boss, and not a polished, HR-bot kinda guy (which is why I like him).

I believe I'm going to turn this down, unless it comes back at $25, which it won't. And that blows, because I need new tires on my bike, and we're broke.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:48 pm 
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May contain Jesus.
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Market value is kind of a joke. Hypothetically I am worth between 50-80K right now. Am I making that? No. Why? Because I work in a smaller market and not in NY or LA. My job doesn't pay but the experience I'm gaining in amazing. I have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet, and sometimes that doesn't even cut it. My point is, if you feel like you can gain experience, and perhaps some resume points do it. If you do well, I'm sure yr supervisor would be happy to give you recs as well when you move on.

*edit*
Also, from experience, I think the advice that if you don't take it someone else will is very true. I'm not say take it just for the sake of taking it, but seriously consider experience over $.

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Baltimore is a town where everyone thinks they’re normal, but they’re totally insane. In New York, they think they’re crazy, but they’re perfectly normal. --John Waters
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Last edited by Flying Rabbit on Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:48 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Old Kingfish Lee Wrote:
Kyle,

I can get you a job making 80 grand plus starting out and they don't even care what MBA you went or that you went at all. Great benefits. Also get a car allowance and you work one week a month.












It's for Haliburton.


Is it in America? Cos if it ain't in Iraq, gimme his number.

Just tell them that you think that comensurate with your experience, you should be making X.

They are trying to see what your negotiation skills are, and the first one to blink loses. Don't blink.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:51 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Flying Rabbit Wrote:
Market value is kind of a joke. Hypothetically I am worth between 50-80K right now. Am I making that? No. Why? Because I work in a smaller market and not in NY or LA. My job doesn't pay but the experience I'm gaining in amazing. I have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet, and sometimes that doesn't even cut it. My point is, if you feel like you can gain experience, and perhaps some resume points do it. If you do well, I'm sure yr supervisor would be happy to give you recs as well when you move on.


= market difference. As mentioned prior, I expect a 5-10% drop for staying here (based on actual past data, not a guess). These guys are trying to get milk without buying a cow.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Go Platinum

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Depends if you consider Louisiana, America?

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:53 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Old Kingfish Lee Wrote:
Depends if you consider Louisiana, America?


HELL NO.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:55 pm 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Flying Rabbit Wrote:
Market value is kind of a joke. Hypothetically I am worth between 50-80K right now. Am I making that? No. Why? Because I work in a smaller market and not in NY or LA. My job doesn't pay but the experience I'm gaining in amazing. I have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet, and sometimes that doesn't even cut it. My point is, if you feel like you can gain experience, and perhaps some resume points do it. If you do well, I'm sure yr supervisor would be happy to give you recs as well when you move on.


= market difference. As mentioned prior, I expect a 5-10% drop for staying here (based on actual past data, not a guess). These guys are trying to get milk without buying a cow.


maybe, but at the same time will you be sitting on yr hands trying to find another internship or will there be another one cropping up anytime now?

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It's Baltimore, gentlemen; the gods will not save you.

Baltimore is a town where everyone thinks they’re normal, but they’re totally insane. In New York, they think they’re crazy, but they’re perfectly normal. --John Waters
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:01 pm 
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frostingspoon
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I'm not looking for another internship - this one's extra. Gravy. Additional to the normal one I just did, over the summer. Only crazy people willingly take on an extra 20 hours of work during the process I'm going through. I just wanted it to work because I thought it would be worth the huge extra effort.

What matters is fulltime employment come springtime. Placement is, again, 100%, but it's always some work to find a good fit. Plus I am limited to local places, not being able to move.

_________________
[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:13 pm 
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Garage Band
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
More importantly, we're glossing over something here. This is a company who KNOWS what the job is worth, and has the money. They're publicly held - I can see their financials. This is not a good offer, nor anywhere near it.


Obviously you've done some research. Could this be one of those situations where they customarily bump you up (big time) after a short probationary period while they evaluate? That's been my experience in previous jobs. You might wanna find out from HR.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:31 pm 
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Flying Rabbit Wrote:
Hypothetically I am worth between 50-80K right now.

Hypothetically, I'm worth a couple of corndogs and maybe half a watered-down lemonade, but I try not to let the bossman in on it. Those are some arbitrary numbers there, Rabbit. How do you determine this?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Squirrgle is right when he says any company that lowballs their interns likely lowballs their entire employee base, and as such, is a company with whom it is not advisable to pursue a career. Shit like this is a corporate mindset. Some companies are willing to pay the cost to be the boss, but too many squeak by on shortchanging their people with the bare minimum...

KY: I need to talk about your pay.
COMPANY GUY: Really? We pay 15 bucks an hour.
KY: Well, OK, 15 is minimum, OK?
COMPANY GUY: OK.
KY: Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just pay the bare minimum. Well, like Merrill Lynch, for example, pays 37 bucks an hour.
COMPANY GUY: OK. OK, you want us to pay more?
KY: Look...
COMPANY GUY Yeah?
KY: People can get an intern anywhere, OK? They come to UW-Madison for the MBA program. That's what the pay's about.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:48 pm 
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we paid our mba interns ~30 an hour, and while none of them were worth the tits on a boar, they complained about it being low compared to the "national average". But we don't live and work in National Average, USA, which i think is in Mizzoula.

Basically it pains me to say this, but you're whining. That's hard cash and they're fucking with you because it's business, not personal. I'll turn it down for you if you don't want to, although I'm going to have a few drinks first if you want us both to really enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:29 pm 
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Points made on life's basic reality. So sometimes we'll be offered something we don't think is worth a fat rat's a** and it's either you toss your resume at them and walk or stand up fight and ask for more. He's chosing the latter even though other interns (or maybe lots of people) would jump at the offer.

But if by chance he posts back to say he talked to the big bossman and they doubled the offer, all board members would definitely congratulate him far standing his ground.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:18 pm 
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You could've been like this guy -- Aleksey Vayner


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 Post subject: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:26 pm 
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Garage Band
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T. Where in the world do you find these links???


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:40 pm 
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Queen of Obner

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I happened to be reading MSNBC.com and it had an article about this looney tune. Did you watch the video? What a weenie!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:55 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
My thought was to prepare something and talk with someone from their HR, because I want us both to enjoy this, not just them.

1. Their stats, earnings, stock prices, competitive environment, etc.... ie, why they can afford it.


This would be a pretty bad idea. You might win the argument, but that likely will end any chance you have at the position.

Prioritize. If they don't want to pay your rate, walk. If you want the table scraps in exchange for the experience and time in the world away from books, then take it.

And 99% of the people with jobs don't feel they are paid what they deserve.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:43 am 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Kit Wrote:
$15 an hour isn't so bad to start off. Take it.


This is another thing that I probably wasn't clear about. I'm not "starting off." I've got 7 years behind me of doing some or all of these things, plus the summer in Boston. It would be my first job at this company, of course, but not in that field.

There's an established, accepted, common sense range of pay for this kind of work, and $15 an hour is the equivalent of a full-armed slap to the face. If you're a web designer, and the going rate for a basic e-commerce site is like 7-10 grand, and someone with deep pockets offers you $3,000, ... it doesn't make any sense.


Yeah...I hear ya. I have a friend who does some IT related stuff and he went from a job that was paying $75K in Houston, to taking something that paid like $40K less in Austin. But now he's back up to the above $75K range.

I actually do know a thing or two about paycuts. For more reasons than I care to name, I recently took a 50% paycut moving to Austin. Right now I'm just looking at it like "OK, I probably won't be at this level for more than 6 months." Plus, I enjoy what I am doing now way more so than what I was doing in Houston, even though I have quite a learning curve to overcome as of now. But I am economizin' like a muthafucka. :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:09 am 
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What is it you do that you command $35/hr? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:06 am 
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Kit Wrote:
I have a friend who does some IT related stuff and he went from a job that was paying $75K in Houston, to taking something that paid like $40K less in Austin.


$75K a year and be surrounded by misery or $40K less and be happy as a Clam (ie if a mollusc can be considered happy).
For me the choice is easy.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:29 pm 
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Go Platinum

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Didn't read all the other quotes, but I'd write up a consulting engagement proposal and free-lance it.


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 Post subject: Re: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:33 pm 
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G-Force Wrote:
Kit Wrote:
I have a friend who does some IT related stuff and he went from a job that was paying $75K in Houston, to taking something that paid like $40K less in Austin.


$75K a year and be surrounded by misery or $40K less and be happy as a Clam (ie if a mollusc can be considered happy).
For me the choice is easy.


$35K a year won't cover a car, nor mortgage, nor student loans, and let's face it, it's damned embarassing for an MBA grad.

If you can't find a decent paying job in a field you love, take a decent paying job in a field you don't love, and find a way to make it enjoyable. There's a reason it's called "work" and there's a reason they have to pay you to do it.


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 Post subject: Job advice, please
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:11 pm 
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Aural Fixation Wrote:
Did you watch the video? What a weenie!


No T., Seems like the video was pulled soon afterwards. But the Aleksey Vayner narrative said it all.


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