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 Post subject: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:53 am 
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BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) --Saddam Hussein was sentenced Sunday to death by hanging for his role in a brutal crackdown nearly 25 years ago in Dujail -- the once obscure Iraqi town that is now a symbol of his regime's cruelty.

Also sentenced to death were Barzan Hassan, Saddam Hussein's half-brother and former head of the intelligence agency, and Awad Bandar, the former chief judge of the Revolutionary Court.


Reasons to jubilate an obvious fateful outcome or brace for more violence? Will these sentencing have any significant impact on the overall fight on terrorism?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:05 am 
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I did not expect a death sentence.

Very good.

Die now, please, asshole.


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 Post subject: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:16 am 
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frosted Wrote:
I did not expect a death sentence.


Considering the number of souls that perished under this tyrant, I'm not so surprised. But according to report some of his cohorts got 15 years and life sentences.

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 Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:39 am 
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Tron Wrote:
Will these sentencing have any significant impact on the overall fight on terrorism?


saddam wasn't a terrorist and iraq had nothing to do with terrorism so... no.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:43 am 
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I hope we get live coverage of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:01 am 
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greezy Wrote:
Tron Wrote:
Will these sentencing have any significant impact on the overall fight on terrorism?


saddam wasn't a terrorist and iraq had nothing to do with terrorism so... no.


Agreed. He was a vicous, paranoid despot, but was primarily concerned with mantaining his own power. The Bush administration will find a way to connect his sentence with terrorism again and again over the next two years but on the international stage it won't be a major factor. It will be a factor within Iraq, of course.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:23 am 
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You know I just read 'The Oresteia', an 2,500 year old Greek play on how generational violence and tit-for-tat killing can only be ended by an inherently peaceful and consolatory Justice.

But I guess when the Shia police force tortures and executes hundreds of people every day in Baghdad, we shouldn't shed too many tears over Saddam Hussein. It's just an other example of how post-invasion Iraq is a complete disaster.

Welcome to the new 'democratic' Iraq - nation of attrition, where the killing never stops.

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 Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:30 am 
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frosted Wrote:
greezy Wrote:
Tron Wrote:
Will these sentencing have any significant impact on the overall fight on terrorism?


saddam wasn't a terrorist and iraq had nothing to do with terrorism so... no.


Agreed. He was a vicous, paranoid despot, but was primarily concerned with mantaining his own power. The Bush administration will find a way to connect his sentence with terrorism again and again over the next two years but on the international stage it won't be a major factor. It will be a factor within Iraq, of course.


Oh the "Fight them in Bagdad or fight them in the streets of Los Angeles" speech. Well in two years we might not be as gullible a society as we were during the WMD sales job.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:42 am 
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We will always be a gullible nation so long as there are officials willing to invent or mispresent connections and sell those connections as fact.

We will be gullible so long as we have leaders who are willing to lie to us or manipulate us while telling us we put the nation at risk if we don't accept their "facts."

It's difficult for the average person to keep on top of what is true and what is misrepresentation, particularly when the misrepresentation is guised as protection, safety and and patriotic duty.

It's quite likely a fair amount of the nation two years from now will recall Saddam as "that guy who attacked us" when he did no such thing.


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 Post subject: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:14 am 
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frosted Wrote:
It's quite likely a fair amount of the nation two years from now will recall Saddam as "that guy who attacked us" when he did no such thing.


I hear you loud and clear. I still have people at my job, who during discussions tell me that we are there to "fight for our oil" because it might get into the wrong hands. No they are not illiterates, they are well educated and they hold professional jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:25 am 
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Tron Wrote:
frosted Wrote:
It's quite likely a fair amount of the nation two years from now will recall Saddam as "that guy who attacked us" when he did no such thing.


I hear you loud and clear. I still have people at my job, who during discussions tell me that we are there to "fight for our oil" because it might get into the wrong hands. No they are not illiterates, they are well educated and they hold professional jobs.


Political discussions at my job are too painful and stress-inducing to get involved with. The pro-Bush employees, who are not the least bit dim, by the way, get extremely angry if I put anything into the conversation about Iraq not attacking us or about the administration manipulating facts. They want it to be all about the country being protected and angrily dismiss any hint that the administration has a beyond-protection agenda. Anyone who questions the moral veracity of the administration is viewed as naive, not clued in to "how much these people want to kill us," and a danger to the safety of the nation. Which is exactly the sort of supporter the administration wants. Two sorts, actually: good people who completely refuse to entertain the notion that its own government is duplicitous; and pragmatic people who accept the fact we do questionable things in the name of security.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:32 am 
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Regardless, Hussein was a horrible dude and his people need him very dead.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:09 am 
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frosted Wrote:
Regardless, Hussein was a horrible dude and his people need him very dead.


Exactly. The only reason that it EVER made since to me for us to go into Iraq was to take Sadaam out and then get the fuck out. Just to do the world a favor.

So while we have completely fucked up the occupation of Iraq, I'll take something positive out of this guy getting the noose.

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 Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:05 pm 
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frosted Wrote:
Political discussions at my job are too painful and stress-inducing to get involved with. The pro-Bush employees, who are not the least bit dim, by the way, get extremely angry if I put anything into the conversation about Iraq not attacking us or about the administration manipulating facts.


sounds like my dad. it's so painful that he agrees bush is an out-and-out fool, but, unlike my mom, said he'd still vote for him if he knew then what he knows now because he'd "never had voted for kerry". :nono:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Can anyone explain why digging another grave in Iraq does anyone any good?

It's the very same appetite for vengence that has produced an Iraq where random, sectarian massacre is a common place, every day event.

Instead of acting in a civilised way this death sentance is just the latest chapter of bloody vendetta. It's exactly what Saddam Hussein would have done. It represents no improvement at all, merely a continuation of bloodshed, terror and murder. Does the reversal of X kills Y to Y kills X equate to a moral victory? Hardly.

This was the perfect opportunity to place a building block for peace in Iraq. It could have been a new beginning, based on a rejection of violence and killing. Rather the unimaginative and destructive bloodlust that has engulfed Iraq gets a Goverment seal of approval.

I hope everyone of you think that the eradication of one bad man is worth the 50 or 80 or 100 innocent people who will die today, tortured, shot, blown to pieces, and those who die tomorrow and the next day and the next day...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:14 pm 
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konstantinl Wrote:
Can anyone explain why digging another grave in Iraq does anyone any good?

It's the very same appetite for vengence that has produced an Iraq where random, sectarian massacre is a common place, every day event.

Instead of acting in a civilised way this death sentance is just the latest chapter of bloody vendetta. It's exactly what Saddam Hussein would have done. It represents no improvement at all, merely a continuation of bloodshed, terror and murder. Does the reversal of X kills Y to Y kills X equate to a moral victory? Hardly.

This was the perfect opportunity to place a building block for peace in Iraq. It could have been a new beginning, based on a rejection of violence and killing. Rather the unimaginative and destructive bloodlust that has engulfed Iraq gets a Goverment seal of approval.

I hope everyone of you think that the eradication of one bad man is worth the 50 or 80 or 100 innocent people who will die today, tortured, shot, blown to pieces, and those who die tomorrow and the next day and the next day...


what should have been the punishment? A life sentence with death in a jail cell? What's the difference? Is dying in a cell after 30 years of crappy food better just because he didn't have to hang from a rope?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Saddam "Tookie" Hussein

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 Post subject: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:16 pm 
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konstantinl Wrote:
Welcome to the new 'democratic' Iraq - nation of attrition, where the killing never stops.


Well, you captured the grim truth here.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, we went down a road that will leave a historic ulcer many years to come. For now it looks grim all around, and so much for advancing and sustaining a new century of goodwill favorable to American influence and principles around the world.

At least there could be one good lesson learned in all of this; next time we see a politician with pompous swagger and damn the risks attitude, we will be more inclined to guard our votes very carefully.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:51 pm 
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i will reserve judgement whether going to iraq was a good thing or not. right now it seems like no, but then again its too naive to make a decision. its going to take some time, so we'll see in the long run.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:59 pm 
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So GW finally brought the man who tried to have his daddy killed brought to 'justice'.

I'm not a bush fan, but if he would just show his true colors, walk up to saddam and pull the trigger his own damn self, i'd have more respect for that puss.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:00 pm 
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I just want a little honesty. You want him dead? Do it yourself.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:40 pm 
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I would have liked him to get life. Now he'll be seen as a martyr to anyone that cares enough to do so. And trust me one person is 15 million too many.

Al Capone got life and after the trial and his stay at Alcatraz people stopped giving a f*ck about him. He died tortured and alone.

Would have been fun to see the same happen to Saddam. Maybe eighty years down the road have De Niro play him in a movie. It'll be a little harder cause in order to villainize the guy any more than he already is he's gonna have to eat babies or rape quadrapledgics, but I'm sure by then DeNiro will have matured enough to make it plausible.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:43 pm 
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konstantinl Wrote:
Instead of acting in a civilised way this death sentance is just the latest chapter of bloody vendetta. It's exactly what Saddam Hussein would have done. It represents no improvement at all, merely a continuation of bloodshed, terror and murder.


No, see there was a trial where evidence and shit was presented and then decided on. It may have been a sham from day one but at least it was there.

With Sadaam there would'nt have been any of that--just the execution.

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 Post subject: Saddam Hussein sentenced
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:17 pm 
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Prince of Darkness Wrote:
I just want a little honesty. You want him dead? Do it yourself.


Seems like everyone here is confronting nothing but the plain truth here, but we have a certain "world image" to uphold you know: American's global leadership, fair and balanced democratic priciples, strict adherence to the Geneva convention, profound ethical conduct and all that good stuff the rest of world got tired of hearing from us.

How would we look if we go offing a former captured leader of another nation?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:37 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
konstantinl Wrote:
Instead of acting in a civilised way this death sentance is just the latest chapter of bloody vendetta. It's exactly what Saddam Hussein would have done. It represents no improvement at all, merely a continuation of bloodshed, terror and murder.


No, see there was a trial where evidence and shit was presented and then decided on. It may have been a sham from day one but at least it was there.

With Sadaam there would'nt have been any of that--just the execution.


Surely a sham trial is not really a trial (since it's a 'sham' trial) and simply a drawn out execution (since the verdict was never in doubt, regardless of evidence)?

It's worth pointing out that this trial was over the execution of 143 Shia muslims implicated in an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein in 1982 and whether the subsequent execution of these men was legal or a crime.

crimesofwar.org Wrote:
the state rounded up hundreds other citizens, eventually executing at least 143, whose names are recorded on a 1985 execution certificate. The men were ostensibly found guilty by Iraq’s Revolutionary Court, but legal experts say the trials fell far short of any reasonable standard of due process.
.

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