but what occured in Iraq over the last few days is fucking amazing and it would not have occured without that asshole and the goddamned war.

8 million Iraqi's voted
Turnout around 60-70 %
Voters walked for miles to get an opportunity to vote
Tons of women given a voice

Sorry, but with all the Bush bashing by myself and others here it would be total bullshit to ignore the amazing events that have occured.

Steve

Not to dive too heavily into the topic, or get really political, cause I'm not, but personally, I'd rather have the lives back of the 1100 some odd US troops who dies over there, and fuck their election.

But given, that is not possible, hopefully the events of the last week or so, is a major step in the right direction.

I absolutely agree with you.

Yup.

Great results.

But what happens when nearly 4 million iraqis feel estranged that their guy didn't win? We hold up signs and sit on govenment building steps, raise a big stink and concoct conspiracy theories, make pseudo-documentaries and blog. I'm pretty sure they'll protest in other ways...

I couldn't care less. It doesn't change all the sadness and heartbreak millions of families have dealt with.

The question still remains...are we safer today than we were three years ago?

I agree with you Steve, it is amazing. I just hope that it holds up.

As for the soldiers and their families, keep 'em in your thoughts and prayers. War is what they do, and many of them are damned good at it.

You are totally correct. It may not be pretty. And Twilight Kid I don't know if in 50 years we will think that ALL the lives lost during this mess were worth it. I know if I were a Dad I would seriously have my doubts.

This post was just an attempt to not pretend here that what happened in Iraq didn't occur. Can't spend 6 months bashing that jerkoff and then when something even just a little positive occurs ignore it.

right on man.

amazing events like this:

You are totally correct. It may not be pretty. And Twilight Kid I don't know if in 50 years we will think that ALL the lives lost during this mess were worth it. I know if I were a Dad I would seriously have my doubts.


Dude, i agree with ya....
im just sayin if i had a choice of which scenarios were possible, id go with
troop snot being over there and dying, and no election happening...

but since its not, more power to those people..hopefully the country gets stabilized, and we can get out of there sooner then later

me too. And I hope people in Iran, Syria, and the rest of that neighborhood are watching.

Just keep a Kleenex handy.

This is the stuff I get from my pops:
The following was attributed to the NCOIC (non-commissioned officer in charge) of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates.

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you.
He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night.
The only thing clean on him is his weapon.
He doesn't worry about what workout to do---his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care "how hard it is"; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home.
He knows only the Cause.
Now, who wants to quit?"

The really amazing thing will be if there's an other election in 5 or 10 years time.

It's great news. There's certainly reason for caution, but there's also reason for a measure of relief.

While I agree it's encouraging news, I'm not sure if I buy the whole "the end justifies the means" rationale.

Absolutely not. But I don't think anyone here would disagree. I don't think you have to view Bush as vindicated to agree that the elections were a positive step forward.

it's gonna be awesome when they "elect" some uber-religious demagogue whose policies run contrary to our interests and we have to liberate several thousand people from both their oppressor and this mortal coil.

But you do have to not be chase.

The election is Iraq is not "amazing" by any standard, especially one under a foreign occupation. What would be truly amazing is if their votes actually counted. The future Shia-run government will be illegitimate, unless they do what their constituents actually want.....that is, for the American forces to go HOME. That won't happen of course, so look for a Shia revolt to join in with the current Sunni revolt and things in Iraq to deteriorate even further.

Also, let it be researched.....South Vietnam had an "election" in Sept 1967 under US occupation. The US news media from those days sounds exactly like the US newsmedia sounded yesterday. No need to explain what evetually happened there a few years later in that country called Vietnam.

I'm really glad we forced democracy on another country. I'm glad that at the slim cost of $152 billion dollars and 1200 odd soldier (not to mention the 17,000 Iraqi) fatalities, Iraq can adopt a new political system that they'll end up hating us even more for in 20 years. It's a step in the right direction, yeah, but that's the equivalent of putting a stepladder at the bottom of the grand canyon. This is just going to convince Bush that the people are behind him and then he will take this to Iran and Syia and impose the same sort of unnecessary actions on them as he did to Iraq. It will be quicker, and definitely less protested by the press and the average American, but that's the whole point.
Weren't we supposed to help the Sudanese? Is Sudan even there anymore? I think we actually showed up in Sudan on the way to Thailand and took back out seven cans of beans "sorry guys, but nobody vacations here so we need these in Asia".
It's great thatIraq voted. It's awesome. But that country has so many warring factions that voting isn't going to act as some sort of dramatic overhaul of the quality of life over there. except for maybe the winners. It's just going to make the size of the oppressed group smaller.

weak

I'm glad the election occured, but I still think the war was a huge mistake and Bush should still be impeached for misleading me and everyone else. Yes, believe it or not, Mr. Lefty here actually believed Bush's "arguments" before the war started. Thanks media for giving me all sides of the story (note: sarcasm). I don't think 100,000 lives killed was worth this and what scares me the most is that Bush will somehow use this to rally everyone to support the next war against Iran.

And remember, until we actually pull out of Iraq, and I mean all military bases and oil fields, it's not their country.

Well said. I think you might have lowballed the Iraqi death numbers by a couple ten thousands. I do wish well for all over there, ours and theirs.