Gwynn, Ripken receive HoF call

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:18 pm

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:24 pm

DHRjericho Wrote:

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

Those post season win and loss numbers are skewed because of the expanded playoffs these days but I do get your point (and can think of some Shit the Bed Glavine outings in the post season.

Where do you guys come down on Smoltz as a HoF'er? 193 wins, 154 saves, 2,778 strikeouts and one of the better post season pitchers. (most wins? or is it El Duque? No matter. see above)

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

Get your mouth off the gas pipe. The only consecutive world series he played in were 1991 & 1992 and in the 1992 WS he was 0-2 with an ERA of 8.44.

His career post season record is 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA. He had some big games and big series but lots of guys did. His post season record is no justification for HOF consideration.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:48 pm

billy g Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

Get your mouth off the gas pipe. The only consecutive world series he played in were 1991 & 1992 and in the 1992 WS he was 0-2 with an ERA of 8.44.

His career post season record is 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA. He had some big games and big series but lots of guys did. His post season record is no justification for HOF consideration.

You think The Twins or the Jays make the series w/o him?

Again, Morris is a Potter Stewart guy to me. Maybe not to you.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:44 pm

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

i know i was oversimplifying your argument but i don't think post season heroics should carry as much weight as you believe

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:46 pm

DHRjericho Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

i know i was oversimplifying your argument but i don't think post season heroics should carry as much weight as you believe

aside from dudes like Ernie Banks, its the way most players get in. Consistency and winning.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:47 pm

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

You think The Twins or the Jays make the series w/o him?

I think Guzman and Key were better that year.

no guru · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:52 pm

This thread is our very own AM radio.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:53 pm

Not to mention David Cone down the stretch

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:55 pm

DHRjericho Wrote:

Not to mention David Cone down the stretch

YEah, The Geek Monster was pretty fuckin good for a while there.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:19 pm

Juan Guzman was insane.

Those Blue Jays teams were pretty sick. Roberto Alomar? There's a guy I thought would be a sure fire Hall of Famer...don't think so.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:29 pm

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

i know i was oversimplifying your argument but i don't think post season heroics should carry as much weight as you believe

aside from dudes like Ernie Banks, its the way most players get in. Consistency and winning.

Ferguson Jenkins, as well.

Robin Yount, for a third.

& for DH candidates for the Hall, please compare with Paul Molitor. Yes, played 2b, 3b, & a little Ss, but the last thirteen, fourteen years of his career -- when he was healthy, & off the cocaine (his dl history bears out Rick James's comedic exhortation) -- saw him as almost exclusively a dh (a little 1b, though, yes).

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:31 pm

crutches of destruction Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

i know i was oversimplifying your argument but i don't think post season heroics should carry as much weight as you believe

aside from dudes like Ernie Banks, its the way most players get in. Consistency and winning.

Ferguson Jenkins, as well.

Robin Yount, for a third.

& for DH candidates for the Hall, please compare with Paul Molitor. Yes, played 2b, 3b, & a little Ss, but the last thirteen, fourteen years of his career -- when he was healthy, & off the cocaine (his dl history bears out Rick James's comedic exhortation) -- saw him as almost exclusively a dh (a little 1b, though, yes).

Even Yount and his shudder-worthy monger mustache made it in 83.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:34 pm

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

crutches of destruction Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

Apparently Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, and Billy Hatcher are HOFers according to Loogar. All the intangibles and big game heroics.

I think Glavine is a HOF, but not a slam dunk. He also has the most losses in postseason history. Tied for 2nd with most wins.

Smoltz was and is a much better big game pitcher.

YEah, if you are an idiot who can't read, and wants to find an argument, you sure as hell see that in what I said. On the criterion of dudes like Mazeroski, you could make an argument for a dude like Bernie Williams, sure.

You have to have a certain combination of all things. Its like the Potter Stewart definition of pornography: I know it when I see it.

and, Billy, I think I watched pretty closely as Morris dominated 2 straight World Series. He definitely was a dude your team feared to face.

i know i was oversimplifying your argument but i don't think post season heroics should carry as much weight as you believe

aside from dudes like Ernie Banks, its the way most players get in. Consistency and winning.

Ferguson Jenkins, as well.

Robin Yount, for a third.

& for DH candidates for the Hall, please compare with Paul Molitor. Yes, played 2b, 3b, & a little Ss, but the last thirteen, fourteen years of his career -- when he was healthy, & off the cocaine (his dl history bears out Rick James's comedic exhortation) -- saw him as almost exclusively a dh (a little 1b, though, yes).

Even Yount and his shudder-worthy monger mustache made it in 83.

One WS, in '82. Molitor was there as well, & put up better numbers. Brew Crew lost in seven, though. (The Lou's last WS triumph 'til this year. (The Curse of Pete Vukovich is Dead.))

Molitor also has a WS MVP from '93.

Neither Igniter nor The Kid has the postseason rep/experience of your boys, though.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:36 pm

No, no they don't.

Molitor, btw, is probably the biggest undercover monger in MLB history.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:36 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Juan Guzman was insane.

Those Blue Jays teams were pretty sick. Roberto Alomar? There's a guy I thought would be a sure fire Hall of Famer...don't think so.

I think Alomar is a HOF.

2700+ Hits, 200+ HR's, 470+ Stl, .300 BA, .371 OPB,

10 Gold gloves, 12 All-star, 5 top 10 MVP

I was suprised to see he hit .336 in 2001 and only played 3 seasons after that where he hit .266, .258, and .263 respectively.

Not to mention hit .313 in the post-season with 230+ AB's.

I think that's pretty convincing for a fantastic/very good second baseman.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:40 pm

Sen. LooGAR (D-Pedantic) Wrote:

No, no they don't.

Molitor, btw, is probably the biggest undercover monger in MLB history.

Not so undercover. Known coke-dealer, prolly the biggest in MKE/Upper Midwest at the time, was best man at his wedding. (Tony Peters is the name; look 'im up.) Mrs Molitor is an ex-coke-slut athlete groupie.

It's all there, homey. All in the open. & I loved when Charlie Hustle brought it into the Hall of Fame coverage when Molly & Eck were voted in a coupla January ago.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:05 pm

DHRjericho Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

J

I think that's pretty convincing for a fantastic/very good second baseman.

Ive always thought that he was probably the best player in the AL for a stretch there and maybe the best 2B of this era (if I'm missing somebody, remind me); he'd be a slam dunk if his BA was a little higher and had gotten to 3,000 hits (all hitting numbers are gonna be completely skewed in this era as I'm sure you realize)

DHRjericho Wrote:

I was suprised to see he hit .336 in 2001 and only played 3 seasons after that where he hit .266, .258, and .263 respectively.

Steroids, anyone?

shmoo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:06 pm

I'm borderline on Alomar. Great player, one of the best 2B combining offense and defense for a while there. But flamed out a bit early. Of course, Kirby Puckett still got in. So we'll see.

Speaking of 2B, what about Jeff Kent?

Z · **Joined:** Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm **Posts:** 7979

Yail Bloor Wrote:

shmoo Wrote:

Okay, Z and I are going vinyl shopping. Be good.

cool. pick me up something.

of course, this thread came up during our adventure.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:08 pm

shmoo Wrote:

I'm borderline on Alomar. Great player, one of the best 2B combining offense and defense for a while there. But flamed out a bit early. Of course, Kirby Puckett still got in. So we'll see.

Speaking of 2B, what about Jeff Kent?

not sure about Kent, but Craig Biggio is HoF in my book.

Edit: after a check of the numbers. NO to Kent.

shmoo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:08 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

I was suprised to see he hit .336 in 2001 and only played 3 seasons after that where he hit .266, .258, and .263 respectively.

Steroids, anyone?

Considering he hit over .300 from 1992-1997 and 1999-2001, that seems unlikely. What, he suddenly decided to stop taking them in 2002?

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:14 pm

shmoo Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

I was suprised to see he hit .336 in 2001 and only played 3 seasons after that where he hit .266, .258, and .263 respectively.

Steroids, anyone?

Considering he hit over .300 from 1992-1997 and 1999-2001, that seems unlikely. What, he suddenly decided to stop taking them in 2002?

I dunno, I'm just saying. Anybody who played on the Rangers, Giants, A's or Indians is deserving of really close scrutiny IMHO.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:27 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

shmoo Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

DHRjericho Wrote:

I was suprised to see he hit .336 in 2001 and only played 3 seasons after that where he hit .266, .258, and .263 respectively.

Steroids, anyone?

Considering he hit over .300 from 1992-1997 and 1999-2001, that seems unlikely. What, he suddenly decided to stop taking them in 2002?

I dunno, I'm just saying. Anybody who played on the Rangers, Giants, A's or Indians is deserving of really close scrutiny IMHO.

He was 34 and playing a position that's somewhat demanding on the body.

DHRjericho · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:28 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

shmoo Wrote:

I'm borderline on Alomar. Great player, one of the best 2B combining offense and defense for a while there. But flamed out a bit early. Of course, Kirby Puckett still got in. So we'll see.

Speaking of 2B, what about Jeff Kent?

not sure about Kent, but Craig Biggio is HoF in my book.

Edit: after a check of the numbers. NO to Kent.

If he has 2-3 healthy seasons where he puts up career average numbers then i think he's a HOF.

Gwynn, Ripken receive HoF call

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