Point being I hear again and again (not just from Loogs) about how they like their rap full of rape and coke.

Which is an odd thing for white people to want from black people. And vice versa.

Are there black guys out there clammering for shit-kickin' truckstop country music? Possible, I guess. But it would be a weird corollary.

Do black dudes who hate gangsta get mocked by other black dudes for liking "white" or are they just ridiculed the way white people get ridiculed for liking "dad rock?"

Regardless, if I were black, I'd be the 40 year old in the sleeveless sweater and baseball cap at the Digable Planets concert.

The rap fan in me is the same as the wrestling fan in me. I am a fan of schlock and awe, and people degrading themselves and their cultures for money. It makes me laugh.

Harry, you still haven't really commented on anyone being afraid of black people or music, which is what I took "afrophobic" to mean.

Hey, well, ok. It's not race specific, then. More they-dumb-for-fame.

Is it funnier if they're genuinely stupid or if they're smart but playing the game? I can't tell the difference lots of times, actually.

Depends. Actually, most of the time when they are actually dumb (Let's use the Yin Yang Twins as an example) it is better/funnier than if they are playing for the audiences' benefit (an example being latter period Ice Cube)

Not to join in in jerking circle, but this is minstrel show mentality.

At its best, bubba!

The best thing about the whole thing is, you can't fathom how someone can enjoy things on this level/with this mentality, yet still not be racist/sexist/homophobic, etc.

Just because its wrong, don't make it less entertaining.

And again, you fail to answer my original question.

I gotta disagree here, Loogs. If something is wrong, it's wrong. I don't see where it's ever okay to support and revel in that which one deems to be wrong.

Interesting discussion.

I like some "black" music...don't like other. I tend to think rap is in decline these days and that jazz, blues, funk has been for quite some time. I don't think that expresses anything about my feelings about black folks in general...just the state of music today. To behonest, I think we're kinda in a holding period...rock is all regurgitated these days, jazz, funk, blues has been for a long time...rap is aging, going on 30 nowadays, huh...what's next?

I do think it should be pointed out that acusing white people of being anti-black for not listening to enough "black" music is preposterous. I know very, very few white people who don't listen to black artists. Hell, white folks have been rippin' off black folks for a long, long time in the music bizz. On the other hand, the number of black people I have known that listen mostly to music made by white folks is comparatively miniscule.

Also, I believe it is my god given right to laugh at stupid people regardless of their ethnic disposition.

Oh...and while I've not met any gang bangers into shit-kickin' country music, I've met many who are more comfortable relating on a personal level to down 'n' dirty shit kickin' white boys with conferdarate flag tattoos than suburban gangsta wanna be baggy pants wearin' white boys.

Basically, I don't think there are any real answers here...just observations. And, trying to use these sort of quick and easy tests to determine how people feel about an issue as complex as race relations is a recipe for disaster.

i just dont like much blues or jazz or hip hop. that doesnt make me afrophobic. i dont like that type of music very much - even that type of music made by whiteys.

i like rock music and it happens to be a fact that most of the rock bands out there are white. go ahead and slide a ethiopian funk band on your list - you may call it being down with the black community...i call it tokenism

And, when talking about native African bands, lets not even bring up the hard feelings between the traditional African-American population and more recent African immigrants who chose to come here.

Thread's in the process of doing that without my help.

Your Tentative Top 50:

1. Califone – Roots and Crowns
2. The Hold Steady – Boys and Girls in America
3. Bob Dylan – Modern Times
4. Ali Farka Toure - Savane
5. Yo La Tengo – I am not afraid of you And I Will….
6. Benoit Pioulard - Precis
7. Six Organs of Admittance – The Sun Awakens
8. Grizzly Bear – Yellow House
9. Mogwai – Mr. Beast
10. Los Lobos – The Town and the City
11. Serena-Maneesh – Serena Maneesh
12. Stone Jack Jones - Bluefolk
13. One Second Bridge – One Second Bridge
14. Brightblack Morning Light – Brightblack Morning Light
15. Howie Gelb – Sno Angel Like You
16. Sonic Youth – Rather Ripped
17. Thom Yorke – The Eraser
18. Destroyer – Destroyer’s Rubies
19. Belle and Sebastian – The Life Pursuit
20. Juana Molina – Son
21. Sunset Rubdown – Shut Up I Am Dreaming
22. Junior Boys - And So This is Good Bye
23. Tim Hecker – Harmony in Ultraviolet
24. Asobi Seksu – Citrus
25. Autumn Leaf – Into the Blue Again
26. Tapes ‘n Tapes – The Loon
27. Charlambides - A Vintage Burden
28. The North Sea and Rameses III
29. B. Fleischmann – The Humbucking Coil
30. The Brother Kite - Waiting for the Time to Be Right
31. The Knife – Silent Shout
32. Herbert – Scale
33. Neko Case – Fox Confessor Brings the Flood
34. Band of Horses – Everything All the Time
35. Camera Obscura – Let’s Get out of This Country
36. Placebo – Meds
37. Neil Young – Living with War
38. Lindstrom and Thomas – Lindstrom and Thomas
39. Black Heart Procession – The Spell
40. TV on the Radio – Return to Cookie Mountain
41. Danielson – Ships
42. J Dilla – Donuts
43. Calexico – Garden Ruin
44. Solomon Burke - Nashville
45. Josh Rouse – Subtitulo
46. Tom Zé - Estuando O Pagode
47. Mastodon – Blood Mountain
48. Gotan Project – Lunatico
49. The Long Blondes – Someone to Drive you Home
50. Peter Bjorn & John - Writer's Block

Oh yeah, he blacker than a muthafucka, too

They both have their place

I love Mobb Deep but their ultraviolent gangsta view is filtered through their art school background

whereas Cam'Ron is DUMB but also pretty much my favourite rapper. The best was when he invented a colour.

its the same thing if someone said they like their punk snotty and obnoxious

is that buying into the whole punk = lowerclass = dumb myth?

Yeah, you're right, my whiteness disables the observation about this board being pretty white.

Or put another way, other than Ali Farka Toure and Solomon Burke, my list can be distinguished from Pazz 'n Jop by my age, whiteness, and racism. Agreed.