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 Post subject: my hero
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:21 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/ap_ ... itary_gays

it's about time somebody speaks his mind


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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This is weird. While this guy certainly isn't my hero, I don't feel like he should be so pressured to apologize for expressing his views. Since when are people not allowed to make up their own minds about what's right and wrong?

It's not like he's trying to change any policies to make it more difficult for gays to serve in the military. He supports the current policy just like his critics do. And he was asked about the topic so why wouldn't he share his personal feelings, especially since he feels strongly about the issue? I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
This is weird. While this guy certainly isn't my hero, I don't feel like he should be so pressured to apologize for expressing his views. Since when are people not allowed to make up their own minds about what's right and wrong?

It's not like he's trying to change any policies to make it more difficult for gays to serve in the military. He supports the current policy just like his critics do. And he was asked about the topic so why wouldn't he share his personal feelings, especially since he feels strongly about the issue? I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


no, you're wrong grandpa
it is completely in the same ballpark as making racist or sexist comments

and even if you feel strongly about it... you're wrong

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:04 pm 
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See, to each their own....because this guy just disgusts me - to sit there and talk about how he feels homosexuality is wrong while his orders result in the deaths of THOUSANDS upon thousands of people shows a ridiculous double standard to me...I don't see any clear commandments about Homosexuality, but there sure as hell is one stating "Thou shall not Kill"

Not trying to disparage you aFreshStart4Me, I know you have spent time in Iraq and that we probably have opposing views on the entire conflict but this is so hypocritical that it really infuriates me.

Of course, I also feel that he should obviously be entitled to his opinion - but I feel that having an opinion is one thing, and being asked as a representative of our country, a country where church and state are supposed to be separate, is another thing entireley.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Meh.

Does anyone actually think the majority of military commanders DON't feel this way? As in, "it's a sin, let god sort 'em out." He's a fifty something year old marine... = not known for their tolerance.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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catswilleatyou Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
This is weird. While this guy certainly isn't my hero, I don't feel like he should be so pressured to apologize for expressing his views. Since when are people not allowed to make up their own minds about what's right and wrong?

It's not like he's trying to change any policies to make it more difficult for gays to serve in the military. He supports the current policy just like his critics do. And he was asked about the topic so why wouldn't he share his personal feelings, especially since he feels strongly about the issue? I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


no, you're wrong grandpa
it is completely in the same ballpark as making racist or sexist comments

and even if you feel strongly about it... you're wrong


Oh, well thanks for clearing that up.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:19 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Chrome_CW Wrote:
See, to each their own....because this guy just disgusts me - to sit there and talk about how he feels homosexuality is wrong while his orders result in the deaths of THOUSANDS upon thousands of people shows a ridiculous double standard to me...I don't see any clear commandments about Homosexuality, but there sure as hell is one stating "Thou shall not Kill"

Not trying to disparage you aFreshStart4Me, I know you have spent time in Iraq and that we probably have opposing views on the entire conflict but this is so hypocritical that it really infuriates me.

Of course, I also feel that he should obviously be entitled to his opinion - but I feel that having an opinion is one thing, and being asked as a representative of our country, a country where church and state are supposed to be separate, is another thing entireley.


War is a part of life, a part of humanity...always has been, always will be. So I guess Washington ordered thousands to their deaths too, as well as Patton, Grant, Eisenhower...what makes they diffrent


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:23 pm 
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shmoo Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?


Well, why is it?

Homosexuality implies a behavior. Race and sex do not.

Let me just clarify that I don't think the military should kick people out or deny people the right to serve because they are gay. They shouldn't have to keep it a secret. "Don't ask, don't tell", however, is a compromise that will probably have to stay in place to keep either side from being completely furious over the issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:25 pm 
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shmoo Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?


because sexual orientation is a choice, just like skin color or gender.
[/sarcasm]

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
shmoo Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?


Well, why is it?

Homosexuality implies a behavior. Race and sex do not.

Let me just clarify that I don't think the military should kick people out or deny people the right to serve because they are gay. They shouldn't have to keep it a secret. "Don't ask, don't tell", however, is a compromise that will probably have to stay in place to keep either side from being completely furious over the issue.


So...
Homo = bad behavior? Hetero = good behavior?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:28 pm 
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I think the guy's an asshole, but I generally prefer that assholes let us know what they're thinking so we can more easily identify them. And I hate those fake apologies. If it's what you believe, even if it's fucked up...at least admit it.

Scary part is we've probably got a decent majority in the US that agrees with him.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Garage Band

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BTW cats, your hero's haircut is not within regulation


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:31 pm 
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The fucking cluemaster
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aFreshStart4Me Wrote:
BTW cats, your hero's haircut is not within regulation


well that's last time i google "gay soldier"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:36 pm 
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frostingspoon

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Chrome_CW Wrote:
See, to each their own....because this guy just disgusts me - to sit there and talk about how he feels homosexuality is wrong while his orders result in the deaths of THOUSANDS upon thousands of people shows a ridiculous double standard to me...I don't see any clear commandments about Homosexuality, but there sure as hell is one stating "Thou shall not Kill"

Not trying to disparage you aFreshStart4Me, I know you have spent time in Iraq and that we probably have opposing views on the entire conflict but this is so hypocritical that it really infuriates me.

Of course, I also feel that he should obviously be entitled to his opinion - but I feel that having an opinion is one thing, and being asked as a representative of our country, a country where church and state are supposed to be separate, is another thing entireley.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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catswilleatyou Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
shmoo Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?


Well, why is it?

Homosexuality implies a behavior. Race and sex do not.

Let me just clarify that I don't think the military should kick people out or deny people the right to serve because they are gay. They shouldn't have to keep it a secret. "Don't ask, don't tell", however, is a compromise that will probably have to stay in place to keep either side from being completely furious over the issue.


So...
Homo = bad behavior? Hetero = good behavior?


First of all, I haven't aligned myself with this guy's comments. On some level, I agree with nobody's post.

Second, even he isn't saying gays are bad, and straights are good. Chances are, he believes that monogamous, heterosexual intercourse is the only kind that's OK. Which would mean in his viewpoint, "heteros" are almost as often engaging in "bad behavior".

Also, the whole categorization of people as "straight" or "gay" has its flaws.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
catswilleatyou Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
shmoo Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
I realize some people will try to equate this to making racist or sexist comments, but it simply is not the same.


Why isn't it?


Well, why is it?

Homosexuality implies a behavior. Race and sex do not.

Let me just clarify that I don't think the military should kick people out or deny people the right to serve because they are gay. They shouldn't have to keep it a secret. "Don't ask, don't tell", however, is a compromise that will probably have to stay in place to keep either side from being completely furious over the issue.


So...
Homo = bad behavior? Hetero = good behavior?


First of all, I haven't aligned myself with this guy's comments. On some level, I agree with nobody's post.

Second, even he isn't saying gays are bad, and straights are good. Chances are, he believes that monogamous, heterosexual intercourse is the only kind that's OK. Which would mean in his viewpoint, "heteros" are almost as often engaging in "bad behavior".

Also, the whole categorization of people as "straight" or "gay" has its flaws.


drinky,
i get with the whole everyone (even assholes) get their own opinions part of what you're saying...

i just think that the opinions he decided to vocalize fall into a very similar category as racist and sexist comments

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:50 pm 
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Oh everything is immoral if your code is strict enough. He probably fucks his wife through a sheet, so who cares what this particular Duke thinks?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:56 pm 
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His son graduated from my school last year. I didn't really know him, but he was in one of my classes.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:03 pm 
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DumpJack Wrote:
Oh everything is immoral if your code is strict enough. He probably fucks his wife through a sheet.


Great, now I am turned on.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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catswilleatyou Wrote:
drinky,
i get with the whole everyone (even assholes) get their own opinions part of what you're saying...

i just think that the opinions he decided to vocalize fall into a very similar category as racist and sexist comments


But this is the problem I have with this whole thing.

How is it the same? When and where was this decided?

To me it feels like thought-policing.

There's a difference between saying "these people are bad" and "this action is bad". Of course, when people are identified with a particular act, saying you think that act is wrong might seem like you're judging them as being bad people. That's not necessarily the case although with this guy, it may well be, given his idea that the military would be condoning homosexuality by allowing homosexuals to serve.

It's a fine line, but I think people should be allowed to express their ideas on the morality of homosexuality. Just because our society at large has now decided that it's OK doesn't mean everyone should have to fall in line or keep their mouth shut. They shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, either.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:48 pm 
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aFreshStart4Me Wrote:

War is a part of life, a part of humanity...always has been, always will be. So I guess Washington ordered thousands to their deaths too, as well as Patton, Grant, Eisenhower...what makes they diffrent


one could argue so is homosexuality...look at the Greeks. Jus' sayin'.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:12 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
Since when are people not allowed to make up their own minds about what's right and wrong?

Since they joined the military.


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