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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
I mean, the linebacking core/corps has already looked slowed by age, but against Jones-Drew, Bruschi & Seau will just look... old.


And the Pats will be able to use San Fran's pick to draft Road Warrior Animal's kid to be the new Bruschi.

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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
I mean, the linebacking core/corps has already looked slowed by age, but against Jones-Drew, Bruschi & Seau will just look... old.


And the Pats will be able to use San Fran's pick to draft Road Warrior Animal's kid to be the new Bruschi.


Hopefully, then, Laurinaitis's tenure in New England will prove about as good as Andy Katzenmoyer's (another tOSU 'backer who went to NE in the draft).


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:02 pm 
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FT Wrote:
Way to go, Pats! 16 down, 2 to go...


Never mind. The Cowboys probably aren't even going to make the NFC Championship Game at this rate.

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Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
I mean, the linebacking core/corps has already looked slowed by age, but against Jones-Drew, Bruschi & Seau will just look... old.


And the Pats will be able to use San Fran's pick to draft Road Warrior Animal's kid to be the new Bruschi.


Hopefully, then, Laurinaitis's tenure in New England will prove about as good as Andy Katzenmoyer's (another tOSU 'backer who went to NE in the draft).


That guy was as dumb as a pile of bricks. You DO have to have some intelligence to play in the pros.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:57 am 
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discostu Wrote:
Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
I mean, the linebacking core/corps has already looked slowed by age, but against Jones-Drew, Bruschi & Seau will just look... old.


And the Pats will be able to use San Fran's pick to draft Road Warrior Animal's kid to be the new Bruschi.


Hopefully, then, Laurinaitis's tenure in New England will prove about as good as Andy Katzenmoyer's (another tOSU 'backer who went to NE in the draft).


That guy was as dumb as a pile of bricks. You DO have to have some intelligence to play in the pros.



Dexter Manley disagrees.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:10 am 
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Aaron Rodgers Lang Stache Wrote:
shiv Wrote:
Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Jon's awful quiet.


I was watching the game and drinking.

Monty's awful quiet.


Havn't been on the internet since about last nite's halftime, but, yes, I saw the end-game. I'm still holding on for a superman, though, to take down this team. The (other) Mighty MJD & Jax might have the next (best) shot, in the playoffs.

I mean, the linebacking core/corps has already looked slowed by age, but against Jones-Drew, Bruschi & Seau will just look... old.


seau has not looked old all year. is the suggestion that jones-drew is a better back than the pats have seen all year?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:03 pm 
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I loves me some '85 Bears.
But with each passing week, I'm thinking that we may be looking at the best NFL team of all-time.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:12 pm 
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PopTodd Wrote:
I loves me some '85 Bears.
But with each passing week, I'm thinking that we may be looking at the best NFL team of all-time.


no contest. consider the league's effort to create the 'parity' they are obsessed with. there has been an ongoing effort to make what the pats are doing infinitely more difficult and they are still doing it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:38 pm 
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suck it, haters.

source

Undefeated, Unloved, Undaunted

The Patriots are great. Deal with it.

As the Borg and I were saying over a game of Golden Tee down at the local bar late Saturday night, resistance, it would seem, is futile. Back in the middle of September, the New England Patriots celebrated getting the largest fine ever levied against a team dropped squarely on their noggins by decimating the San Diego Chargers. I recall pointing out on pages that looked very similar to this one that the only thing that the team hadn't picked up in the offseason was a cause, and now it had one. Since then, the Patriots have played 14 games and won them all. They have won big (52-7 over the Washington Redskins) and they have won small (27-24 over the decomposing Baltimore Ravens). They have been lucky—such as on the winning drive against Baltimore, when New England was bailed out by, in order, an inadvertent timeout called from the Baltimore sideline, its own illegal-procedure penalty, and an interference call in the end zone—and they have been good. And they have, on occasion, been both, such as Saturday night, when New York Giants head coach Tom Coughlin picked the worst possible time to become possessed by the spirit of Herm Edwards, which apparently stalks the Meadowlands to this day.

The Patriots have beaten bad teams, like Miami, and they have beaten good teams, like Dallas. They have beaten six teams that will join them in the NFL playoffs starting next weekend. In Tom Brady, they have the best quarterback who ever played the game. (Come February, when he gets that fourth Super Bowl, the discussion will be limited to him and Joe Montana, and Montana never put up a year like the one Brady has had.) In Bill Belichick, they have one of the five or six best coaches who ever coached the game. They are ludicrously better than 30 of the other teams in the league. We exempt here the Indianapolis Colts, than whom they are only considerably better. And, best of all, they make all the right people angry.

That list starts, as it must, with the surviving members of the undefeated 1972 Miami Dolphins, who decided years ago to break the world record for being publicly grumpy old farts, a mark previously held jointly by the McLaughlin Group and any show Louis Rukeyser hosted alone. Bob Kuechenberg's opinion has been almost universally unsought for more than three decades, and the last person who truly cared what Mercury Morris said about anything was a judge. Yet, all season, the Patriots found themselves heckled by the NFL equivalents of Statler and Waldorf from the old Muppet Show. Go down to the Metamucil section of South Beach, the lot of you, and shut up.

Continuing on, we had all the folks who clutched their pearls and sought the fainting couch when the NFL caught the Patriots cheating in Week 1. Can we all please agree on one thing? As much as we love it, and treasure it, and bet on it, the NFL is at its heart one of the most stunningly amoral enterprises this country has developed since the death of Jay Gould. It depends, primarily, on the destruction of the human body, no less than boxing does. It is a great, galumphing corporate beast, reckless with its players, and heedless in its civic effects, good and bad. For proof, look no further than the interview that Commissioner Roger Goodell gave before Saturday night's game. The league had been knuckled by some suddenly lifelike Democratic congresscritters into making the game generally available on television, instead of restricting it to the NFL Network, as was originally planned. Keeping a completely straight face, and listening intently to hear a cock crow, Goodell said that the decision was all about "the fans," and that it had nothing to do with the ongoing wrangle between the league and America's cable-television providers. Goodell then handed us off to what amounted to a five-hour infomercial for the NFL Network. (Poor Bryant Gumbel was lucky he wasn't wearing decals, like a stock car.) This is the ethical context in which Belichick and the Patriots got caught cheating. Forgive me if my outrage died some time before Thanksgiving.

(I have to admit that the asterisk that the New York Post slapped next to New England in the standings all year was pretty hilarious in and of itself, but the wit was only sharpened by the concept of Rupert Murdoch's tabloid's ascension to the moral high ground, where it no doubt set up a bookie joint and a gentleman's club.)

People simply are going to have to learn to deal, as the kids say. There are reasons far beyond cinematography why the Patriots put up a season that any thinking football fan ought to have been proud to witness. They are smarter than any team that's tougher, and there aren't many of those. There was a lot of woofing and yapping in the Giants game. (To say nothing of nose tackle Vince Wilfork's dead-on Moe Howard imitation through the facemask of Giant running back Brandon Jacobs.) But when it came down to the essential measure of football toughness—the ability to make the best plays at the most crucial time—New England left the Giants in the dust. This is not the first time it happened this year. Against Indianapolis, in the season's signature matchup, the Colts made mistakes in the final minutes that these Patriots simply do not make. They prepare harder and more thoroughly than other teams do. Consider the last gasp the Giants had, an onside kick after their final touchdown. Instead of laying back, the New England special teams attacked, breaking up the New York line before it could form. The ball was plucked out of the air by Mike Vrabel, a Pro Bowl linebacker who still plays special teams because he loves to do it. I do not know this, but I will guarantee you the Patriots practiced that play for the first time no later than the third day of training camp.

And the intellect extends upward into the front office. Any team in the NFL could have had Randy Moss last winter for a bag of magic beans. Only the Patriots stepped up and took what was then a considerable risk. Any team in the NFL could have seen the value of someone like Wes Welker, who caught 112 passes this season. Only the Patriots did. Now, as they go into the playoffs, they do so far removed from the plucky little underdogs who broke up the St. Louis Rams in the 2002 Super Bowl. They're bullies now, it seems. And targets. Everyone's against them. They've got the world right where they want it. Deal with it, world.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:49 pm 
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A Northern Soul Wrote:
suck it, haters.

source

Undefeated, Unloved, Undaunted

The Patriots are great. Deal with it.

As the Borg and I were saying over a game of Golden Tee down at the local bar late Saturday night, resistance, it would seem, is futile. Back in the middle of September, the New England Patriots celebrated getting the largest fine ever levied against a team dropped squarely on their noggins by decimating the San Diego Chargers. I recall pointing out on pages that looked very similar to this one that the only thing that the team hadn't picked up in the offseason was a cause, and now it had one. Since then, the Patriots have played 14 games and won them all. They have won big (52-7 over the Washington Redskins) and they have won small (27-24 over the decomposing Baltimore Ravens). They have been lucky—such as on the winning drive against Baltimore, when New England was bailed out by, in order, an inadvertent timeout called from the Baltimore sideline, its own illegal-procedure penalty, and an interference call in the end zone—and they have been good. And they have, on occasion, been both, such as Saturday night, when New York Giants head coach Tom Coughlin picked the worst possible time to become possessed by the spirit of Herm Edwards, which apparently stalks the Meadowlands to this day.

The Patriots have beaten bad teams, like Miami, and they have beaten good teams, like Dallas. They have beaten six teams that will join them in the NFL playoffs starting next weekend. In Tom Brady, they have the best quarterback who ever played the game. (Come February, when he gets that fourth Super Bowl, the discussion will be limited to him and Joe Montana, and Montana never put up a year like the one Brady has had.) In Bill Belichick, they have one of the five or six best coaches who ever coached the game. They are ludicrously better than 30 of the other teams in the league. We exempt here the Indianapolis Colts, than whom they are only considerably better. And, best of all, they make all the right people angry.

That list starts, as it must, with the surviving members of the undefeated 1972 Miami Dolphins, who decided years ago to break the world record for being publicly grumpy old farts, a mark previously held jointly by the McLaughlin Group and any show Louis Rukeyser hosted alone. Bob Kuechenberg's opinion has been almost universally unsought for more than three decades, and the last person who truly cared what Mercury Morris said about anything was a judge. Yet, all season, the Patriots found themselves heckled by the NFL equivalents of Statler and Waldorf from the old Muppet Show. Go down to the Metamucil section of South Beach, the lot of you, and shut up.

Continuing on, we had all the folks who clutched their pearls and sought the fainting couch when the NFL caught the Patriots cheating in Week 1. Can we all please agree on one thing? As much as we love it, and treasure it, and bet on it, the NFL is at its heart one of the most stunningly amoral enterprises this country has developed since the death of Jay Gould. It depends, primarily, on the destruction of the human body, no less than boxing does. It is a great, galumphing corporate beast, reckless with its players, and heedless in its civic effects, good and bad. For proof, look no further than the interview that Commissioner Roger Goodell gave before Saturday night's game. The league had been knuckled by some suddenly lifelike Democratic congresscritters into making the game generally available on television, instead of restricting it to the NFL Network, as was originally planned. Keeping a completely straight face, and listening intently to hear a cock crow, Goodell said that the decision was all about "the fans," and that it had nothing to do with the ongoing wrangle between the league and America's cable-television providers. Goodell then handed us off to what amounted to a five-hour infomercial for the NFL Network. (Poor Bryant Gumbel was lucky he wasn't wearing decals, like a stock car.) This is the ethical context in which Belichick and the Patriots got caught cheating. Forgive me if my outrage died some time before Thanksgiving.

(I have to admit that the asterisk that the New York Post slapped next to New England in the standings all year was pretty hilarious in and of itself, but the wit was only sharpened by the concept of Rupert Murdoch's tabloid's ascension to the moral high ground, where it no doubt set up a bookie joint and a gentleman's club.)

People simply are going to have to learn to deal, as the kids say. There are reasons far beyond cinematography why the Patriots put up a season that any thinking football fan ought to have been proud to witness. They are smarter than any team that's tougher, and there aren't many of those. There was a lot of woofing and yapping in the Giants game. (To say nothing of nose tackle Vince Wilfork's dead-on Moe Howard imitation through the facemask of Giant running back Brandon Jacobs.) But when it came down to the essential measure of football toughness—the ability to make the best plays at the most crucial time—New England left the Giants in the dust. This is not the first time it happened this year. Against Indianapolis, in the season's signature matchup, the Colts made mistakes in the final minutes that these Patriots simply do not make. They prepare harder and more thoroughly than other teams do. Consider the last gasp the Giants had, an onside kick after their final touchdown. Instead of laying back, the New England special teams attacked, breaking up the New York line before it could form. The ball was plucked out of the air by Mike Vrabel, a Pro Bowl linebacker who still plays special teams because he loves to do it. I do not know this, but I will guarantee you the Patriots practiced that play for the first time no later than the third day of training camp.

And the intellect extends upward into the front office. Any team in the NFL could have had Randy Moss last winter for a bag of magic beans. Only the Patriots stepped up and took what was then a considerable risk. Any team in the NFL could have seen the value of someone like Wes Welker, who caught 112 passes this season. Only the Patriots did. Now, as they go into the playoffs, they do so far removed from the plucky little underdogs who broke up the St. Louis Rams in the 2002 Super Bowl. They're bullies now, it seems. And targets. Everyone's against them. They've got the world right where they want it. Deal with it, world.


That author does one hell of an uncanny Bill Simmons impression.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:11 pm 
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A Northern Soul Wrote:
And the intellect extends upward into the front office. Any team in the NFL could have had Randy Moss last winter for a bag of magic beans. Only the Patriots stepped up and took what was then a considerable risk.


This isn't really true, Randy Moss learned what it's like to be rich on a bad team and he didn't like it. He would only go to an already proven winner. So maybe three teams were in the running. Donte' Stallworth took less money for a more limited roll to play with the Pats instead of the Eagles. They set up a great team adn that draws players, but it's not like almost every team in the NFL wouldn't have liked to have had Randy Moss.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:14 pm 
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memories . . .

http://www.obner.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t ... randy+moss

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Articles like that are really starting to annoy the piss out of me. Why do people who like the Patriots always act like fans of other teams either: a) deny that the Patriots are great even though no one on earth has said that, or b) that these other fans should sit back and "appreciate" the Patriots in some way that any "true" football fan would. I like the Eagles and any team besides the Eagles winning is distasteful to me (but particularly the Giants, Cowboys, Redskins, and now Patriots). I recognize the Patriots greatness, and I can in fact "deal" with it. But I'm not going to like or appreciate it. That's what being a fan of another team means.

Also, I think it means less to "appreciate" how good a football team is compared to other, more individual-dependent sports. I hated the Jordan era Bulls because of Phil Jackson and the fact that they always won. But I enjoyed watching Jordan because he was so damn physically gifted and amazing. He was clearly better than anyone else on the floor. But a football team firing on all cylinders is not that different than your average 10-6 team. Other than a few Moss circus catches, you could substitute any moment of the Patriots 16-0 perfect season with highlights of the Cleveland Browns and it wouldn't really be any more impressive looking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Except that a 10-6 team is not firing on all cylinders.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:50 am 
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el_scorcho Wrote:
Articles like that are really starting to annoy the piss out of me. Why do people who like the Patriots always act like fans of other teams either: a) deny that the Patriots are great even though no one on earth has said that, or b) that these other fans should sit back and "appreciate" the Patriots in some way that any "true" football fan would. I like the Eagles and any team besides the Eagles winning is distasteful to me (but particularly the Giants, Cowboys, Redskins, and now Patriots). I recognize the Patriots greatness, and I can in fact "deal" with it. But I'm not going to like or appreciate it. That's what being a fan of another team means.

Also, I think it means less to "appreciate" how good a football team is compared to other, more individual-dependent sports. I hated the Jordan era Bulls because of Phil Jackson and the fact that they always won. But I enjoyed watching Jordan because he was so damn physically gifted and amazing. He was clearly better than anyone else on the floor. But a football team firing on all cylinders is not that different than your average 10-6 team. Other than a few Moss circus catches, you could substitute any moment of the Patriots 16-0 perfect season with highlights of the Cleveland Browns and it wouldn't really be any more impressive looking.


perhaps it is your and your teams' focus on individual play that prevents any winning from going on in philly. also, show me derek anderson's 50 td throws this year. oh, only one qb threw 50? maybe the pats would have a longer tape to show than the browns.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:48 am 
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My point, thrillhouse, which your statement actually goes along with, is that the Patriots are way superior statistically but on any one individual play it may not be easy to tell them apart from a team that's just good. As a team they are the Michael Jordan of football, and they want to be treated that way. But watching them is not like watching MJ. Any moron who never watched a basketball game could watch Jordan and immediately know he was better than everyone he was playing with. The Patriots are the best because they do good things that any decent football team can do, just with greater frequency, and they make far, far less mistakes.

Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but I really don't get why people have this idea that the Patriots are "underappreciated." This is all I'm coming up with. They want to be the equivalent of Lebron James or Tiger Woods, but the NFL just isn't like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Tom Brady is the MJ of haaaaaaaaandsome!!!!! [/ghey]

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:21 pm 
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el_scorcho Wrote:
My point, thrillhouse, which your statement actually goes along with, is that the Patriots are way superior statistically but on any one individual play it may not be easy to tell them apart from a team that's just good. As a team they are the Michael Jordan of football, and they want to be treated that way. But watching them is not like watching MJ. Any moron who never watched a basketball game could watch Jordan and immediately know he was better than everyone he was playing with. The Patriots are the best because they do good things that any decent football team can do, just with greater frequency, and they make far, far less mistakes.

Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but I really don't get why people have this idea that the Patriots are "underappreciated." This is all I'm coming up with. They want to be the equivalent of Lebron James or Tiger Woods, but the NFL just isn't like that.


yes i agree with you. watching brady and moss light up the league could never match the pulse racing excitement i feel when i watch tiger woods play golf.


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el_scorcho Wrote:
My point, thrillhouse, which your statement actually goes along with, is that the Patriots are way superior statistically but on any one individual play it may not be easy to tell them apart from a team that's just good. As a team they are the Michael Jordan of football, and they want to be treated that way. But watching them is not like watching MJ. Any moron who never watched a basketball game could watch Jordan and immediately know he was better than everyone he was playing with. The Patriots are the best because they do good things that any decent football team can do, just with greater frequency, and they make far, far less mistakes.

Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but I really don't get why people have this idea that the Patriots are "underappreciated." This is all I'm coming up with. They want to be the equivalent of Lebron James or Tiger Woods, but the NFL just isn't like that.


brady and moss just set records yet they're just "good"?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Brady and Moss are great. I never said they weren't. My point, which I apparently failed miserably at making, was just that the difference between a good team and a great team is inherently less interesting than the difference between a good and a great individual athlete. Surely this makes sense to someone besides myself.



Anyhoo, since I now have a lot of football-related brain activity to spare and no one cares what I say in this thread anyway, here is what I think the Eagles should do in the offseason. I have no idea if it would all be feasible. The Eagles draft 19th. They need to get a young safety or a CB. Injuries to Dawkins and Lito Sheppard killed them this year. They should also consider O-line in the draft. MJG seems like he has potential, but I'm definitely not sold on Justice; and Runyan and Willam Thomas are no spring chickens. They need to re-sign Joselio Hanson. They should let Jevon Kearse go. The linebackers and starters on the defensive line are good, but I expect some shuffling amongst the second tier D-line. Kearse probably won't be the only one to go. They should let LJ Smith go and just use Celek and Schoebel. Obviously, they should keep McNabb. They should also try to renegotiate Westbrook's contract if he's willing to be reasonable. They need another reciever. I'm guessing Moss will stay in NE, so maybe they can go after Patrick Crayton. Alternatively they could draft a receiver high and go after Nnamdi Asomugha of Oakland or Marcus Trufant for help in the defensive backfield. Also, they need a better punt/kickoff returner. And it may be time to at least bring in some competition for Akers as FG kicker. 2007 was not a good year for him. Mix in a healthy year for McNabb and less distraction for Andy Reid, and I'm think Super Bowl, bitches!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Have I posted recently how much I hate Tom Brady? Even more than short white people. Arrogant prick. Hope the Steelers demolish them.

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Yeah he's not sunshine in cleats. That hair-parted-to the-side I'm-just-better-than-you demeanor he has is pretty nauseating.

But the Pats win and Brady has an amazing arm so I deal with it.


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harry Wrote:
Have I posted recently how much I hate Tom Brady? Even more than short white people. Arrogant prick. Hope the Steelers demolish them.


where do i start? how about with the arrogance complaint i guess. what the f are you talking about? arrogant how exactly? and by the way, you are barely tolerable as it is. i wouldn't want to know you if you were responsible for 3 (soon to be 4) superbowl victories, 50 passes for touchdowns in a single season, and a perfect 16-0 record for the first time in the league's history. i would say he is handling it pretty well. and he doesn't place the franchise in jeopardy by riding motorcycles without a helmet, which is a better example of arrogance than you will be able to present in support of your claim.

now, onto the next...

hope the :lol: steelers :lol: demolish the pats? i suggest you hope in one hand, shit in the other and see which one fills up first, my friend. the pats handed the steelers their asses a couple weeks ago while the steelers were still healthy. oh and by the way, why are we talking about a matchup that we won't ever see? the steelers have exactly one game left, so i hope you enjoy it.

and lastly, happy new year.


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thrillhouse Wrote:
and by the way, you are barely tolerable as it is. i wouldn't want to know you if you were responsible for 3 (soon to be 4) superbowl victories...


As it happens, you don't, so, no prob.

I've followed Brady since his high school days at Serra HS in San Mateo, CA, where people I know knew him there, and confirmed the (totally unwarranted, and unfair, gut reaction) that he thinks his shit does not have odor and has had a life of privilege . My (unfair) subjective opinion is also based on his trash talking the teams he plays against.

He has developed, obviously, into a spectacularly successful QB. But I am a (subjective, gut) Colts fan from the days of Johnny Unitas' black high tops, so, what can I say.

Feliz ano nuevo to you too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:15 am 
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frostingspoon
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 10777
Location: Sutton, Greater London
el_scorcho Wrote:
Brady and Moss are great. I never said they weren't. My point, which I apparently failed miserably at making, was just that the difference between a good team and a great team is inherently less interesting than the difference between a good and a great individual athlete. Surely this makes sense to someone besides myself.

Perfect sense. Some people might be playing dumb just to egg you on.

RE Brady: I don't listen to his press conferences, so I don't know if he's arrogant or not. I thought his interview on the Mayne Event a few years ago was pretty funny. "Tom, you've won three of the past four Super Bowls. What happened on the off-year? What's your problem?" Brady's subsequent confusion at the question was either perfectly staged or just him not getting the joke. Either way, I found it hilarious.

All that said, I still like him as a player and would be more than happy to have him win a fourth (and even fifth) Super Bowl in the next three years. At the very least, that would get JoeMo out of the "best QB ever" conversation.


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