hi all

I am planning on buying a new dark burst (tobacco) Les Paul standard. I'm wondering how low I can expect to find one new, and if buying one slightly used maybe makes more sense. Your thoughts? So far I have a $2200 quote.

thanks!

Talk to graham. He knows pauls.

IMO, I don't think Gibsons are worth that kind of money for their current level of workmanship. I've always been a big fan of Heritage guitars (made in the original Gibson factory in Kalamazoo by many of the same guys.) About half the price of Gibsons, and about twice the quality.

I hate you.
And, as you know, I am a Fender guy, myself.

Gibson is still making decent stuff... not amazing in quality and not too dissapointing usually. You're going to get excellent resale value for your money, but others are correct in saying you could spend less and have more, in terms of construction, feel, and mojo, no question. But if resale (ie "investment") is high on your list, few if any will match the Paul. There's a reason they still sell well after all these years, and it's because everyone knows what to expect from them, and they still sound good.

Screw that, get a custom shop tele and never look back.

As far as factory pickups go, I'll take the Paul over any other big-line guitar. I think teles have a lot to be desired with the single coil. That being said, the best guitars I have ever heard are teles, albeit with swapped out pickups.

I would love to be a strat man, but I absolutely HATE the way they look.

I also agree about the resale of a gibson. I am looking for an investment-quality guitar that will hold most of its value.

Love em or hate em, if you get a good Paul, it's a rocknroll machine.

If you get a bad Paul, you can still get a decent return on it. Never a bad investment.

I would get a vintage one, personally, and sell it in about 20-25 years.
Shoot for early 70's and back.

Or I'd pony up for a limited run historic issue with papers and sell it in 20-25.

Yeah, going back even to a nice one from late 70's would be a good way to go for similar $ as new. BUT-- gotta watch those neck / headstock joints. The neck is glued (sorry, probably know this, apologies) and if it's ever been dropped hard, then the only way it goes back on is a re-glue, which is easy to do kinda crappily. Same for the headstock joint. Faint crack lines under the finish = run away.

Hey matt - I've owned many les pauls and I think the Historic reissues are far and away the best. If you're in the market, you'd better snap one up in the next couple of days - prices for 2005 are going up if they haven't already. Not to put the pressure on....

By far the best value for a Historic is the '57 Goldtop reissue - you can get one for around $2200. Other than that, if you're looking for a tobacco-burst Historic, you're gonna be paying quite a bit more than that. Look for a '58 or '59 reissue and see if you can stand the big fat neck.

Also, as far as the Goldtop goes, they make a few that are called "darkbacks" because the back is finished in a deep oxblood finish as opposed to the standard light finish. I just saw one in person for the first time - they have two of them at Maken Music - and they are just incredible. Just awesome - you may want to head over there because the "darkbacks" are really hard to find and they won't be there long. Again, you're looking at about $2200.

BTW the quote you have for the sunburst is $2200, huh? What are the specs? I take it you are NOT talking about a Gibson Historic.

Check out the lespaulforum.com too.

awesome....I just emailed you a bunch of questions and you answered a lot of them.....thanks!

Go cheap! I just got a Squire, yes I said Squire Tele Custom II. It has that Les Paul Special or SG special sound. It has Seymour Duncan P-90s, but it plays like a Tele.

http://www.elderly.com/fmic/items/SQTP90-BLND.htm

hey ky, this guy must be my brother by another mother: buy a shit guitar, drop some pickups in it and go to town.

Not for nuthin but I've always heard this is a good recipe:

Telecaster + Open G tuning + copius amounts of booze = A Gas, Gas, Gas!

the problem with shit guitars is that after a year, they play like a shit guitar

this is a lifetime purchase I'm talking about

You mean like my Squire?
Oh, wait, it's an '88 and it still plays like a motherfucking DREAM! Your bad.

oh, i agree with you Spade; the cheap guitar with better parts was my MO for years, but later in life I appreciate a quality instrument.

it is truly an invstment and a lifetime purchase as well it should be.....

Hey I never mentioned squires

I'd buy a strat if I didn't think it was the ugliest guitar ever manufactured

I had an epiphone les paul for a couple of years and absolutely loved it. My main problem with the lower tier guitars is that I always seem to have intonation/neck problems with them. I want a motherfucking guitar that will stay in tune and do me right with the sound that I want. I'm tired of fucking around with swapping out pickups and getting setups every two months.

You keep mentioning strats, but the sound you want is a les paul... the two are miiiiles apart. My point is that if there is any fender / gibson debate in your head (& there may not be), then the fender guitar is gonna be a tele. Someone once said Jimi page sold more les pauls playing a telecaster than anybody did playing les pauls, and it's very very true. Pretty much all of Zep 1 was a good ol tele. I have one with a set of Texas Specials in it, and it's hotter than all getout, without being overbearing. It was very definately the only single coil guitar I had back then that sounded ok doing Pixies covers through a marshall jcm800... everything else (particularly strats) was just toooo muddy.

So if you want a Fender option that meets these criteria, ie hot-but-not-nuclear sound, resellability, and a $2000 price tag, then head thee towards yon Fender Custom Shop. Some binding around the top, a nice translucent finish, a set of hot-yet-tasteful pickups (broadcasters, txs spcls, etc)... mm mm mmm! And you won't walk into a new bar every month and see some knob playing Creedbox 20 covers on something that looks JUST like what you just bought.

BUT - just make sure you've made your piece with the Price Tag Game, which is where people are tempted to think that price aaalways means better sound, because if you haven't it's a tough pill to swallow. You shell out bigtime (more than either of my 2 vehicles are worth), and it sounds great, but sure as shit, the next low-fi gig you go to, there'll be some dude with a Bloor Special (Hondo, etc) with decent pickups duct taped in there, and somehow, his sound is just delicious. I speak from experience... both sides have their advantages.

Apologies for post length.

no, I appreciate the post length. some salient points, to be sure.

I really think I just want a bad-ass les paul.

And when you get that itch, nothing else will do. I say again, they remain unchanged and very popular lo these many years for very solid reasons. I have a studio Paul, and it does a few things better than anything else I have, for sure. It has a niche. I would be sad without it.

just got a quote on an 04, barely used, honeyburst for 1695 list.

hmm....

At a store? That ain't bad. Make sure you're in LOVE with the color, for level of dough, man. No compromises with this one. Nothing worse than thinking "yeah, it's cool, but I kinda wish I'd gotten the goldtop" in 6 months.

Man those things are expensive... maybe that's why I love fenders so much.