I'm sure it's been said here already, and I don't really want to dig through this entire thread just to quote someone's similar thought, so IMO, people carrying guns to these town hall meetings is really just one part of the whole. These are people who are finally getting all of their anger out about the "counter-culture" winning the election. It was a culture war in 2008 and the progressives won. Now these people have a chance to show their disagreement with "Obama" as a symbol for everything they hate.

i remember when bill clinton came to indianapolis while in office. my dad had an office suite in a building downtown where he could look down on the whole thing. there were sharpshooters on literally every fucking rooftop.

this whole brandishing-guns-near-the-president like 5-yr-olds is stupid, but i think if any one of them made any sort of move they'd find their brain turned to hot goo before they got the safety off

I don't know what to hope for... if nothing happens, great I guess, it's people lawfully excercising a constitutional right to do something dangerous, provocative, and stupid. Nothing "wrong" with that.

If something does happen, then the issue gets a little more scrutiny.

Not to parrot Rodney, but how in fuckall does he think he's currently NOT paying for other peoples' healthcare?

the other thing I think a lot of people are oblivious to is the fact that wages are going up extremely slowly (or really not at all adjusted for inflation) and a major cause of that is that the cash that businesses could be spending on salary increases are going to maintaining health insurance coverage.

so, when you hear people say that they are worried that a public option would mean their employer would drop health care coverage for their employees and force them into the public system...what these people don't consider is that with the current system and cost escalation, most are going to lose health care through their work anyway and at that point they will be happy to have a public option to rely on.

You don't see a lot of HR executives out there with angry signs, I guess.

a company the size of the one I work for spends an insane amount of money on health care and just the overhead of managing the plans. hundreds of millions of dollars a year. free that up and we could do a lot - invest in R&D, pay more, etc. multiply that out over the entire economy and its a huge impact. of course thats politically impossible.

Why haven't they foisted those costs onto the government already, like Wal-Mart? Cut you guys all down to 30 hours a week so you don't qualify for anything, hire a few more to make up the difference and viola! FEEL THE SAVINGS.

thats the way its going, might as well do it now and be honest about it. sever healthcare from employment entirely.

we wuz all born 30 years too late, gang.

<----- still marrying a french chick

Beautiful read... I had heard that Ebert had transitioned to an exclusively (?) internet presence seamlessly, but this -- wow.

yeah, i really hope that went to print for the trad press types

a lotta people grew up with ebert



there are some great comments at the end of that article too

Marc Ambinder of The Atlantic:

Bringing guns to Obama events is stupid.
Here's the thing: the only people who suffer any sort of real distress whatsoever when people ostentatiously display their weapons outside an Obama event are agents of the United States Secret Service. Not because they're worried Obama is in danger ... they control all the venues, and you'll get your butt hauled off to jail if you try to sneak a gun through a magnetometer. It's because they've got to divert resources in order to deal with you.

When that guy in New Hampshire brought his gun to Obama's town hall meeting, he was ostensibly trying to make a point about freedom and the second amendment. Point made.

Everyone else -- all the copycats -- are hurting themselves. Why bring the guns? The events aren't safe? Of course they are.

They're the safest places on earth, given all the police activity.

Make a statement? Statement's already been made.

Rile the liberals in the crowd and get people angry? That's uncivil.

To those 2nd Amendment advocates who like this trend, here is what you're endorsing ... you're perpetuating the perception among some in the elite media that Republican gun owners are lunatics, at best, and racist, at worst. (I know that there's been at least one black gun toter, but this is about perception.)

You're forcing the government to spend more money, as -- and I have no inside information here -- the Secret Service is probably sending more plainclothesed counter surveillance agents to Obama's town halls now.

You're linking a noble tradition -- advocating for gun rights -- to mob violence, and implying that people ought to attend American political rallies while armed.

Both great reads.

Speak for yourself flatfoot.

Credo:

I believe there is a rhythm to the conversations in the AmerPublicSphere. I believe we gobble up dreck for a short period (Palin's selection controlled the newscycles for two weeks, it looks like it was going to work... and then she sank like a stone)... but there is a balance that returns to a middle ground of sanity.

I believe the steering mechanisms of privilege, power, and post-industrial neo-liberal multi-naitonal capital absorb huge amounts of space in said sphere.

I believe that there aksi is a goodwill at play when humans interact... that in spite of the enormous power of the privileged who wish to hold on to their Golden Hind, an appeal can be made to the best of us... and that appeal can succesfully accumulate an energy that can defeat the selfish small-minded fear fodder that is grist for the mill and a paliative reality check head above the churning bile of the Maggoty Mind of Mammon.

In short, Pelosi, B. Franks, Steny gun, and Carolyn Cheeky Kilpatrick are starting to do the Empire Strikes Back deal. This thing isn't over.... I believe that the Pres will shortly appeal to our moral best self. I believe we have one. I believe having people sick, in pain, and dying before their time isn't what most of us would choose... will choose.

Deo vindice.

Also, what would have happened had Black Panthers brought rifles to "town halls" with Richard Nixon. It wouldn't have been a nice demonstration of the second amendment, it would have been Fred Hampton time.

I wonder how many crazy conservatists bothered to keep reading when they realized it was against their ideals.
The problem I have with conservatists is not that they are conservative, but that they are closed to discussion and hear what they want to hear. If half of them would get their head out of the sand or stop having it pumped full of toxic waste from entertainment programs like Rush, they would be much better off doing research on the issues that mean the most to them and then making their own judgements.

You were saying?

Barney Frank goes toe-to-toe.
I love that guy.

i wish he didn't talk so much like a muppet

that's how he converts the kids into being gay.