College Football 2009

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:02 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

On the contrary, I think a college bowl system would be more valuable for the networks than the bowls (meaningful games versus exhibitions) and would thus be more valuable for the NCAA who could then spread that money to its member schools. We are talking billions here.

But that is actually an argument against a playoff because I don't think any of us believes that the NCAA knows how to handle that sort of cash and I personally think that would be the impetus for the players to "walk out" for a piece of the action.

Just because you say something, doesn't make it true. I'm pretty sure that the 2003 sugar bowl had meaning for at least 100,000 LSU fans. Same probably holds true for the Rose bowl that year. Probably holds true for the Orange Bowl winners's fans, etc. Shit, our peach bowl victory from last year had meaning to me.

The Saints's loss first round loss to the Vikings in 98 had meaning for whom? The Vikings fans? Certainly not Saints fans. Not sure Vikings fans care about it after they lost the superbowl or nfc championship game (whenever they lost. honestly I can't even remember anymore). And I know what you meant by meaning.

And the notion that somehow the NCAA isn't making enough money off of CFB is hilarious. It's already in the billions.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:04 pm

Kingfish Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

College Basketball has a real quality product - ha ha. Only the player's parents care about that sport before March. And then in a couple weeks its over.

Maybe in Baton Rouge that's true but not in plenty of other places.

Quote:

Because everyone is doing it is absolutely the most non-compelling reason I know.

That might be true if we were talking about something less consequential than deciding the ultimate winner in a sport. (Which is the goal, right? To win?)

You like college football and how it plays out, fine. I think its a sham, think the bowls are pointless and that a playoff would breath a lot of life into a very tired product.

There a lot of things wrong with this.

1) True in Baton Rouge? C'mon. Do we need to really pull out tv ratings, attendance ratings, sales, tv contracts, etc. College football dominates college basketball. And all other college sports for that matter. Sure, Duke draws all year, but that's not really the point. I'll do you one better. LSU is rabid about college baseball. We've lead in attendance for a decade. Just built a stadium that rivals minor league facilities. It's no where near the stratusphere of CFB. This is really a silly argument you're posing. What amatuer sport really rivals CFB beyond 1 time events like the olympics? It may have something to do with how much every game matters and your team can still be a winner w/o winning it all (bowl games, conference championships value, etc.)

2) Tired product? Maybe to you. We're getting to the point where LSU, Ohio State, Florida, Notre Dame, Bama, etc. have facilities that are better than their professional counterparts. The SEC and Big Ten have their own networks. The sport is growing in ways that it hasn't since before WWII. The money being pumped into this sport is damn near amazing, which is wierd for a "tired product."

3) "To win.." I'm not sure what this means really nor do I really know what the "ultimate winner" means either. This is a very subjective mercurial proposition in my mind. If you mean, the goal is to provide the clearest expression of the best team that played in a given time period, then I'd say the NFL does an equally poor job in comparison to other sports. One game???? Are you kidding me. At least play a series to make sure you earn it instead of just having a fluke. Tampa Bay just beat the Packers today. Do you really believe that Tampa Bay is the better team? I'd pick the 16-0 Patriots to beat the Giants 7 out of 10 games. But the Giants were the "champs." Champs but not really the better team. Anything can happen in one game. In fact, that's what makes march madness great is that the best teams often don't win against far inferior teams. My point isn't that the Super Bowl sucks. I love it.

My point is that no system perfectly allocates the best team. Some are more flawed than others. So what - it doesn't matter to me. For me sports are all about drama. That's why I think an uncapped Yankees is the best thing about baseball. You need a villian.

I don't want cookie cutter sports. I like different rules. Otherwise, CFB just becomes a lesser quality NFL.

Okay, deep breath.

1. Way to change the metric mid stream. You said in your first post that "College Basketball has a real quality product - ha ha. Only the player's parents care about that sport before March. And then in a couple weeks its over." Then when I refuted that you said that college football is more popular than college basketball. No shit, but that wasn't the point. Pick an argument and stick to it, k?

2. You are totally correct that college football is bigger than ever but that does not equate to better IMHO. Not disputing you at all on the growth of the sport.

3. The NFL isn't decided by "one game" Its decided by a 16 game season, followed by three weeks of playoffs to reach that "one game" And sure, you may be right about those Patriots beating those Giants but guess what? Nobody on the Patriots are claiming they won the AP NFL Title that year like USC does for 2004. The NFL has never had "Split World Champions" because they actually decide it on the field and its not decided by writers or computers or current coaches or former coaches...They don't have to change the metrics of what constitutes the champion or the teams that play in the Super Bowl every year to get the right "mix" of computers and polls like the BCS does; they just play the games and that's it.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:05 pm

LSU vs. Florida tickets were going for $500 a piece this year. That's in a stadium that holds 90K+. I could have probably found Saints vs. Falcons tickets for under a 100 bucks in stadium that holds 60k. There's obviously no money in the current system.

Promethium · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:14 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

On the contrary, I think a college bowl system would be more valuable for the networks than the bowls (meaningful games versus exhibitions) and would thus be more valuable for the NCAA who could then spread that money to its member schools. We are talking billions here.

I don't think you're looking at it in the way of the SEC or Big 12 schools.
Why share revenue with roughly 100 other schools that aren't in your conference when you don't really like sharing a piece of the pie with 11 other teams in your conference.
There's no way a school like Colorado or Iowa State is going to get the cut they currently get from eight bowl teams in the Big 12, in a Division I playoff that includes eight conference champions and eight at large teams.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:16 pm

Kingfish Wrote:

LSU vs. Florida tickets were going for $500 a piece this year. That's in a stadium that holds 90K+. I could have probably found Saints vs. Falcons tickets for under a 100 bucks in stadium that holds 60k. There's obviously no money in the current system.

You are a big fan of the same line of reasoning as the people at another board I frequent who say that Fox News is obviously the most valid and trusted news source because they get the highest ratings. Its charming but flawed.

American Idol is also the best show on TV.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:17 pm

Tanner and Chris both used loaded to words in their first posts and will now spend the next 3 pages talking over each other, where in reality, Tanner likes the system like it is, and Chris wants a playoff.

Promethium is right (sorry I have to say this, but I doubt Rads will read this thread

) because he is talking about not The Overall Amount of Money, but The Amount of Money Made by Each Team....aka, he agrees with me!

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:20 pm

How does the basketball TV money get split up? (I honestly have no idea but I do know that there are twice as many schools as in football)

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:22 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Okay, deep breath.

1. Way to change the metric mid stream. You said in your first post that "College Basketball has a real quality product - ha ha. Only the player's parents care about that sport before March. And then in a couple weeks its over." Then when I refuted that you said that college football is more popular than college basketball. No shit, but that wasn't the point. Pick an argument and stick to it, k?

2. You are totally correct that college football is bigger than ever but that does not equate to better IMHO. Not disputing you at all on the growth of the sport.

3. The NFL isn't decided by "one game" Its decided by a 16 game season, followed by three weeks of playoffs to reach that "one game" And sure, you may be right about those Patriots beating those Giants but guess what? Nobody on the Patriots are claiming they won the AP NFL Title that year like USC does for 2004. The NFL has never had "Split World Champions" because they actually decide it on the field and its not decided by writers or computers or current coaches or former coaches...They don't have to change the metrics of what constitutes the champion or the teams that play in the Super Bowl every year to get the right "mix" of computers and polls like the BCS does; they just play the games and that's it.

1) You didn't refute anything. You only picked up on that some sports are bigger in some locations than others. I think the obvious connection is the quality of the product relates to how popular the sport is. College BB's regular season may be on ESPN Ocho soon. But the tournament is on network television. College football's regular season is not only on one network station, it's on all 3 plus cable every week. Hmm....

2) I can't argue with your subjective like for sports. No matter how much NASCAR grows, I can't watch it.

3) So what. Promethium is still talking about Nebraska teams that got the shaft, and I'll be talking about 2003 forever. And I like that to be honest. Those seasons will live forever because of the controversay not in spite of it. And you're changing the argument here. Your original argument is that it is a "sham." When I refuted that by saying legimitacy is a floating ideal. Your new tired line is "there's no controversay." I'll agree those are related concepts, but not really the same thing at all.

Promethium · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:25 pm

Nebraska hasn't gotten the shaft from the BCS system yet.
Shit, we're one of the first examples of it being a failure.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:25 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

How does the basketball TV money get split up? (I honestly have no idea but I do know that there are twice as many schools as in football)

That's what I'm wondering. I can live with the current (terrible, boring) system, and I could live with whatever new (inevitably terrible and boring) system they come up with -- so long as Richt gets the Dawgs back on track and we win whatever version of a championship they are conferring.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:33 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

LSU vs. Florida tickets were going for $500 a piece this year. That's in a stadium that holds 90K+. I could have probably found Saints vs. Falcons tickets for under a 100 bucks in stadium that holds 60k. There's obviously no money in the current system.

You are a big fan of the same line of reasoning as the people at another board I frequent who say that Fox News is obviously the most valid and trusted news source because they get the highest ratings. Its charming but flawed.

American Idol is also the best show on TV.

Logic fail. We're talking about the quality of the entertainment value for something that's real purpose is to entertain and not to inform. Big difference. And I've never posed the argument that the "biggest" = the "best" as in American Idol. I'm purposefully staying awaying from terms like that. I'm saying what I like about it, and part of what I like it about it is how much the regular season matters. Or how exciting it is. I'm providing you evidence that the excitement is noticed by the amount of fans who watch the sport and spend money on it in comparison to other college sports. I'm also refuting that the system is "broken."

But on some level, I'm saying that the market tends to notice quality when it comes to sports.. Maybe not the best, but quality. I think you used to say, "the cream rises to the top" or something like that. Maybe I'm contradicting there a little.

Promethium · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:35 pm

I found this on NCAA Basketball. It is from the year 2003

http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/18/news/co ... /index.htm

Notable quotes:

Universities get relatively little direct money from going to the tournament, despite a television rights deal under which CBS pays about $565 million a year to the NCAA. That money is distributed to the various conferences whose teams compete in the tournament, not to the schools themselves.

All told, the 65 schools in this year's tournaments saw revenue exceed expenses by a total of $146 million last year, even though 13 schools reported losses and another four broke even.

Here's something from 2007

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/15/comment ... /index.htm

This year there are 31 teams not in a major conference, so called mid-major schools, that were included among the 65 teams in the tournament. But only 13 of those 31 teams, or 42 percent, reported a money-making basketball program in the 2005-2006 academic year, according to the figures that colleges and universities file with the Department of Education.
The NCAA's basketball tournament has become one of the nation's most popular and profitable sporting events, but the profits aren't trickling down to some of the smaller schools.
The NCAA's basketball tournament has become one of the nation's most popular and profitable sporting events, but the profits aren't trickling down to some of the smaller schools.

As a group, those 31 teams had average basketball revenue of $2.1 million, and a narrow average profit after expenses of $297,220.

By comparison, the 34 major conference teams in the tournament had average revenue of $9 million, and a profit of $3.7 million. That gave them an average profit margin of 40 percent. Most CEOs would flatten their own grandmothers on the way to the basket if they could score that kind of profit. Only five of the major conference schools in this year's tournament reported a loss on men's basketball

Promethium · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:39 pm

Direct from Wikipedia

The Division I Men's Basketball tournament is the only NCAA championship tournament (officially, the BCS Football Championship is not an NCAA event) where the NCAA does not keep the profits. Instead, the money from the multi-billion-dollar television contract is divided among the Division I basketball playing schools and conferences as follows:[16]

* 1/6 of the money goes directly to the schools based on how many sports they play (one "share" for each sport starting with 14, which is the minimum needed for Division I membership).
* 1/3 of the money goes directly to the schools based on how many scholarships they give out (one share for each of the first 50, two for each of the next 50, ten for each of the next 50, and 20 for each scholarship above 150).
* 1/2 of the money goes to the conferences based on how well they did in the six previous men's basketball tournaments (counting each year separately, one share for each team getting in, and one share for each win except in the Final Four and, prior to the 2008 tournament, the Play-in game). In 2007, based on the 2001 through 2006 tournaments, the Big East received over $14.85 million, while the eight conferences that did not win a first-round game in those six years received slightly more than $1 million each.[17]

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:47 pm

Kingfish Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

But on some level, I'm saying that the market tends to notice quality when it comes to sports.. Maybe not the best, but quality. I think you used to say, "the cream rises to the top" or something like that. Maybe I'm contradicting there a little.

I'll agree with your premise and would offer that the NFL is the richest, most marketable brand in sports, bar none.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:49 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

But on some level, I'm saying that the market tends to notice quality when it comes to sports.. Maybe not the best, but quality. I think you used to say, "the cream rises to the top" or something like that. Maybe I'm contradicting there a little.

I'll agree with your premise and would offer that the NFL is the richest, most marketable brand in sports, bar none.

In America, yes. I agree with that.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:52 pm

Kingfish Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

1) You didn't refute anything. You only picked up on that some sports are bigger in some locations than others. I think the obvious connection is the quality of the product relates to how popular the sport is. College BB's regular season may be on ESPN Ocho soon. But the tournament is on network television. College football's regular season is not only on one network station, it's on all 3 plus cable every week. Hmm....

Again, I'm not and never was trying to equate the popularity of college football and basketball (like you are) but last I checked, regular season college hoopsis on ESPN and ESPN2 and Fox Sports seemingly every night during the winter and spring and is on network and the regional channels on the weekends. All I said was that it was more popular than "only the players families watching it" especially in certain parts of the country which is really all it took to refute you.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:58 pm

LooGAR'sFailsgivingDinner Wrote:

Tanner and Chris both used loaded to words in their first posts and will now spend the next 3 pages talking over each other, where in reality, Tanner likes the system like it is, and Chris wants a playoff.

Promethium is right (sorry I have to say this, but I doubt Rads will read this thread

) because he is talking about not The Overall Amount of Money, but The Amount of Money Made by Each Team....aka, he agrees with me!

Ha, I missed this before but its totally true. Shadowboxing.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:12 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

1) You didn't refute anything. You only picked up on that some sports are bigger in some locations than others. I think the obvious connection is the quality of the product relates to how popular the sport is. College BB's regular season may be on ESPN Ocho soon. But the tournament is on network television. College football's regular season is not only on one network station, it's on all 3 plus cable every week. Hmm....

Again, I'm not and never was trying to equate the popularity of college football and basketball (like you are) but last I checked, regular season college hoopsis on ESPN and ESPN2 and Fox Sports seemingly every night during the winter and spring and is on network and the regional channels on the weekends. All I said was that it was more popular than "only the players families watching it" especially in certain parts of the country which is really all it took to refute you.

You refuted hyperbole. Congrats.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:26 pm

Kingfish Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Also, I don't buy the college basketball regular season vs March Madness comparison.

CFB is a totally different beast and the traditional rivalries would still be as important as ever.

Fish, you can't tell me that with a playoff you somehow wouldn't want to beat Bama, Auburn, or Florida every year.

I also think you're getting into philosophical territory up there with what the 'best" team is. There is an infallible way to determine a champ, you win or lose.

1) All of this is apples to wenches comparisons. That's kind of my point. Love College BB for what it is. Love College FB for what it is. The system is unique and creates some very interesting aspects unknown in other sports.

2) I'd still care about beating Bama, etc. One loss to Arkansas not so much. Even with LSU out of the NC contention, I'm still thinking about what is the best bowl we can go to. Sure, I'd be thinking about our seeding if their is a playoff but the difference between the 14th seed and 6th doesn't motivate me as much as the difference between the Cotton Bowl and the Indy Bowl. LSU can still go 10-2 and hold themselves out as "Cotton Bowl Champs." Losers in the playoffs are just losers. If the Saints don't win the Superbowl, I'd could give a fuck about the positives from this season.

3)When you say something like "this is a sham", it invites philosophical questions. Nobody complains about the inequity of a 1 game superbowl. Everyone complains about the inequities of the BCS. What's wrong with me questioning the logic of that? It's "infallible" only because you say it is. But when I was 10, the only legimacy in HORSE was by "proving it." I guess 10 year old Kingfish had higher standards of "winning" for inconsequential children games than the professional football league.

While I'm at it, think about this. Everyone hates the way baseball chooses home field advantage for the World Series. And I agree with them -it's stupid. However, do you know what the old system was? A fucking coin flip. Oddly, I don't remember much complaining about the coin flip. I suspect no one really complained because it was so engrained in the national thinking that no one thought to question it or really noticed its inequities. Sports are full of this kind of shit. There's no way to make it perfect.

4) "it's broken" - So broken that its more popular than ever.

Not sure if you're just wanting to argue or what but it's clear we're just going to agree to disagree on much of this.

1) I like CFB's unique-ness as well but I like things like gameplay (clock stopping after 1st downs, 15 yard pass interference penalties, etc), neutral site games, school bands, recruiting, conference championship games, etc. What I don't like is a computer generated post-season that simply doesn't play it out on the field. Hell, when LSU won it in 2007, there were 6 teams with 2 losses and only LSU and OSU played each other. It is simply a flawed system.

2) We'll disagree. Losers in bowl games are just losers also. Does LSU hang a Cotton Bowl Champs banner up in the stadium? I've watched countless bowl games and have never called UGA the Capital One Bowl Champs. I just remember who we beat usually. I think teams would start noting Final Fours or something in a playoff format. Also, honestly, unless UGA is playing in a BCS bowl or somewhere I can drive (Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, or maybe Charlotte) I probably wouldn't go anyway. I've been to the Outback Bowl and Ybor City is over-rated for NYE. I digress...

3) Not really sure where you were going with the HORSE comment but a playoff is infallible because you play the games. What is so hard to understand about that? Everyone is given their shot. If you're the better team you should win. If you lose, you have no argument. You had your shot. People complain about the BCS because it never lets people even HAVE the argument. How do you tell 5-6 teams with no losses or 1 loss that are in different conferences, with different teams, that a convoluted computer program says you aren't good enough to play for it all.

4) You're right. The regular season is more popular than ever and I love every bit of it (obviously not been the best for myself) but what comes after could be so much better in my opinion.

I agree that there is no way to make it perfect and people will always bitch but just because people are arguing over the sport and having these conversations doesn't necessarily mean it's doing the right thing.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:44 pm

Rick Derris Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Also, I don't buy the college basketball regular season vs March Madness comparison.

CFB is a totally different beast and the traditional rivalries would still be as important as ever.

Fish, you can't tell me that with a playoff you somehow wouldn't want to beat Bama, Auburn, or Florida every year.

I also think you're getting into philosophical territory up there with what the 'best" team is. There is an infallible way to determine a champ, you win or lose.

1) All of this is apples to wenches comparisons. That's kind of my point. Love College BB for what it is. Love College FB for what it is. The system is unique and creates some very interesting aspects unknown in other sports.

2) I'd still care about beating Bama, etc. One loss to Arkansas not so much. Even with LSU out of the NC contention, I'm still thinking about what is the best bowl we can go to. Sure, I'd be thinking about our seeding if their is a playoff but the difference between the 14th seed and 6th doesn't motivate me as much as the difference between the Cotton Bowl and the Indy Bowl. LSU can still go 10-2 and hold themselves out as "Cotton Bowl Champs." Losers in the playoffs are just losers. If the Saints don't win the Superbowl, I'd could give a fuck about the positives from this season.

3)When you say something like "this is a sham", it invites philosophical questions. Nobody complains about the inequity of a 1 game superbowl. Everyone complains about the inequities of the BCS. What's wrong with me questioning the logic of that? It's "infallible" only because you say it is. But when I was 10, the only legimacy in HORSE was by "proving it." I guess 10 year old Kingfish had higher standards of "winning" for inconsequential children games than the professional football league.

While I'm at it, think about this. Everyone hates the way baseball chooses home field advantage for the World Series. And I agree with them -it's stupid. However, do you know what the old system was? A fucking coin flip. Oddly, I don't remember much complaining about the coin flip. I suspect no one really complained because it was so engrained in the national thinking that no one thought to question it or really noticed its inequities. Sports are full of this kind of shit. There's no way to make it perfect.

4) "it's broken" - So broken that its more popular than ever.

Not sure if you're just wanting to argue or what but it's clear we're just going to agree to disagree on much of this.

.

Mostly procastinating to avoid studying. I do that on Obner a lot and November Random has really disappointed. Apologies.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:48 pm

At this point I'm just hoping for UGA to beat Auburn and UK so we might have a shot at the Peach Bowl. That way I can go to the game, get shit-hammered, and be home passed out in bed by midnight on New Years Eve.

FT · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:15 am

Promethium Wrote:

ShamWow! Wrote:

Safety! Awesome.

Sorry Bobbo, but this needed to be done.
I couldn't deal with Jimmy winning a Heisman or a two loss ND team sneaking into one of the last BCS slots.

Now the Irish can enjoy that trip to the Gator Bowl.

JIMMY FAIL

There will be no Gator Bowl, either, as they still have losses to Pitt, Stanford and UConn on the schedule.

Weis is a worthless fat fuck who should be relegated to coaching Cincinnati Moeller's Freshman "B" team!

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:06 am

Kingfish Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Kingfish Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Also, I don't buy the college basketball regular season vs March Madness comparison.

CFB is a totally different beast and the traditional rivalries would still be as important as ever.

Fish, you can't tell me that with a playoff you somehow wouldn't want to beat Bama, Auburn, or Florida every year.

I also think you're getting into philosophical territory up there with what the 'best" team is. There is an infallible way to determine a champ, you win or lose.

1) All of this is apples to wenches comparisons. That's kind of my point. Love College BB for what it is. Love College FB for what it is. The system is unique and creates some very interesting aspects unknown in other sports.

2) I'd still care about beating Bama, etc. One loss to Arkansas not so much. Even with LSU out of the NC contention, I'm still thinking about what is the best bowl we can go to. Sure, I'd be thinking about our seeding if their is a playoff but the difference between the 14th seed and 6th doesn't motivate me as much as the difference between the Cotton Bowl and the Indy Bowl. LSU can still go 10-2 and hold themselves out as "Cotton Bowl Champs." Losers in the playoffs are just losers. If the Saints don't win the Superbowl, I'd could give a fuck about the positives from this season.

3)When you say something like "this is a sham", it invites philosophical questions. Nobody complains about the inequity of a 1 game superbowl. Everyone complains about the inequities of the BCS. What's wrong with me questioning the logic of that? It's "infallible" only because you say it is. But when I was 10, the only legimacy in HORSE was by "proving it." I guess 10 year old Kingfish had higher standards of "winning" for inconsequential children games than the professional football league.

While I'm at it, think about this. Everyone hates the way baseball chooses home field advantage for the World Series. And I agree with them -it's stupid. However, do you know what the old system was? A fucking coin flip. Oddly, I don't remember much complaining about the coin flip. I suspect no one really complained because it was so engrained in the national thinking that no one thought to question it or really noticed its inequities. Sports are full of this kind of shit. There's no way to make it perfect.

4) "it's broken" - So broken that its more popular than ever.

Not sure if you're just wanting to argue or what but it's clear we're just going to agree to disagree on much of this.

.

Mostly procastinating to avoid studying. I do that on Obner a lot and November Random has really disappointed. Apologies.

I noticed... Saw it when you accused catswilleatyou of being an unrepentent & miserable Pitchforkist, in light of the Casablancas solo joint not growing on him.

& it's funny, too, this bomb-throwing coming from one of my harshest critics on this here bulletin-board.

timmyjoe42 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:21 am

FT Wrote:

Promethium Wrote:

ShamWow! Wrote:

Safety! Awesome.

Sorry Bobbo, but this needed to be done.
I couldn't deal with Jimmy winning a Heisman or a two loss ND team sneaking into one of the last BCS slots.

Now the Irish can enjoy that trip to the Gator Bowl.

JIMMY FAIL

There will be no Gator Bowl, either, as they still have losses to Pitt, Stanford and UConn on the schedule.

Weis is a worthless fat fuck who should be relegated to coaching Cincinnati Moeller's Freshman "B" team!

heh

Moeller lost last week 13-10 which was the last game of the season and this week 45-10 to knock them out of the playoffs. Their only 2 losses of the year happening in the last 2 games is a crappy way to go out.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:02 pm

I know the Big 12 North has taken it on the chin the last couple of years but if Kansas State wins that division, Bill Snyder should at the very least be Big 12 coach of the year.

College Football 2009

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