One of the greatest albums of all time turns 40 today.

Dalen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:43 pm

f4df Wrote:

Dalen Wrote:

sorry toots, but allmusic, lester bangs, and pitchfork would not be my resources for the "First Heavy Metal Album". ask just about any metalhead that follows heavy music closely, and 99% would rate Sabbath as the first, and Black Sabbath as the first, true, proper heavy metal album through and through. Vincebus Eruptum is more of a blues album than it is heavy metal, and that cannot be argued.

Ok so ignore people who have made a career in music analysis and history and instead poll the kid next door who mows lawns for dope money.. got it.

oh, you mean the fans that listen to this music on a daily basis, use every last dollar of their lawn mowing money to buy records and sit in their rooms with them all day and night, and not some schlub that get's paid to tag a genre to something?

yeah, the kid get's the credit i'm afraid.

south pacific · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:44 pm

Quote:

likewise, if you polled the same 100 bands on why it gets dark at night, 95% of them would say satan killed the sun

holy shit, this made me laugh

:rawk:

Dalen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:45 pm

it's a sad and pathetic concept to think that some douche bag writer would understand any type of music more than the consumer of it.

toots · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:49 pm

assuming that all writers are douchebags and not themselves consumers

tentoze · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:52 pm

Dalen Wrote:

it's a sad and pathetic concept to think that some douche bag writer would understand any type of music more than the consumer of it.

f4df · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:55 pm

Dalen Wrote:

f4df Wrote:

Dalen Wrote:

sorry toots, but allmusic, lester bangs, and pitchfork would not be my resources for the "First Heavy Metal Album". ask just about any metalhead that follows heavy music closely, and 99% would rate Sabbath as the first, and Black Sabbath as the first, true, proper heavy metal album through and through. Vincebus Eruptum is more of a blues album than it is heavy metal, and that cannot be argued.

Ok so ignore people who have made a career in music analysis and history and instead poll the kid next door who mows lawns for dope money.. got it.

oh, you mean the fans that listen to this music on a daily basis, use every last dollar of their lawn mowing money to buy records and sit in their rooms with them all day and night, and not some schlub that get's paid to tag a genre to something?

yeah, the kid get's the credit i'm afraid.

haha, ok then - nothing I can argue about there ... the anonymous "fan" writes the history... Ill make a note of that.

Dick Meatwood · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:56 pm

Dalen has never seen "Jaywalking"

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:58 pm

Dalen Wrote:

it's a sad and pathetic concept to think that some douche bag writer would understand any type of music more than the consumer of it.

WTF?

I'm a consumer and I think toots has a compelling argument.

Also, regarding Blue Cheer as a heavy metal band it's all about context. After 40 years and countless incarnations of metal would a 16 year old kid regard them as metal? Probably not. In 1968, probably.

It's pretty widely accepted that they were progenitors of heavy metal.

Also, aren't metalheads extremely devoted and loyal. Who's to say that some kid who is right now into Slayer wouldn't cite Motorhead or hell, Metallica for that matter as the original metal band? I mean, you think if they heard "Changes" by Sabbath they'd think "metal"?

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:00 pm

I'm not even arguing against Sabbath. They're clearly hall of fame and an important band in rock history. Just seems you're being dismissive of toots' argument.

berliner · **Joined:** Fri May 09, 2008 7:00 pm **Posts:** 1516

it was even a social issue to listen to bs or something more "intellectual". my bandmate never touched bs in school, because only the working class labeled kids listened to them. he was totally into yes and vdgg and art rock stuff like that. unbelievable now, isn't it?

Dalen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:23 pm

Rick Derris Wrote:

Dalen Wrote:

it's a sad and pathetic concept to think that some douche bag writer would understand any type of music more than the consumer of it.

Also, aren't metalheads extremely devoted and loyal. Who's to say that some kid who is right now into Slayer wouldn't cite Motorhead or hell, Metallica for that matter as the original metal band?

yes, they are. and they know their history, which is why even the younger generation that are listening to Slayer now would cite Sabbath and the like as the original metal dudes.

did not mean to come off dismissive of toots btw. i rate his opinion higher than anyone on this board.

but he's wrong in this case :-)

Dalen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:27 pm

berliner Wrote:

it was even a social issue to listen to bs or something more "intellectual". my bandmate never touched bs in school, because only the working class labeled kids listened to them. he was totally into yes and vdgg and art rock stuff like that. unbelievable now, isn't it?

it's even more absurd that Led Zeppelin were considered more intellectual than Black Sabbath.

Dalen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:28 pm

toots · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:28 pm

Dick Meatwood · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:29 pm

berliner · **Joined:** Fri May 09, 2008 7:00 pm **Posts:** 1516

Dalen Wrote:

berliner Wrote:

it was even a social issue to listen to bs or something more "intellectual". my bandmate never touched bs in school, because only the working class labeled kids listened to them. he was totally into yes and vdgg and art rock stuff like that. unbelievable now, isn't it?

it's even more absurd that Led Zeppelin were considered more intellectual than Black Sabbath.

true. somehow they were. maybe it was because of their old school blues rock sound (which I don't dislike).