I don't think anyone in their right mind has any problems with Jesus himself, the man, the thinker, etc: It's more what has been done to his message over the last 2k years that's the problem. (and the idea that you would have to dupe people to come to your church is a little sad--you should be able to admit that, right?)

Bingo - it's the mild deception that draws the ire. I fell for it once in h.s. myself. "Free pizza?! I'm there!!" = 2 hour guilt trip. I was ill-pleased, and remain so. Thanks for the pizza, but be honest about your intentions.

But he also said that it was readily evident that it was a church. If it says "1st Baptist Church" on the front or whatever then its not really duping, now is it? Also, who says that its going to be 2 hours of guilt? Sure, there's churches out there that will do that, but right off the bat, you're assuming that's what is going to be taught. That's my problem. I understand that the message has been completely twisted and mangled over the last couple thousand years, but there are churches out there that are genuinely trying to go out and help people and the community. What lights a fire in my britches is when people just shrugs off something because "oh, its at a church". Like I said, I'm sorry that you've been hurt, but you're being just as small-minded as those people you're assuming are inside.

lol - I didn't realize anyone would take this so seriously. Rather than be condemned for my actions, I think I should be saluted for the lengths to which I went for what is really a pretty small little joke.

Not that this really has anything to do with my reasoning for placing the "warning" (that was more due to a sense of humour far too influenced by the likes of The Simpsons), but let me tell you a story about an experience I had with this particular church (which is the Calvary Temple).

Several years ago I was seeing a girl whose Grandfather was a member of this church. He was somewhat enfeebled and not the most mobile of guys, so she used to occasionally volunteer to accompany him to this church. I had been seeing her for some time, and she thought it would be a good idea - family-wise and all that - if I were to also accompany her and her grandfather once and awhile. So I did.

This was shortly after Hurricane Katrina, and one Sunday, the subject of the minister's sermon was New Orleans in the aftermath of the disaster. The theme of the sermon: "They Got What They Deserved". I sat there, jaw agape, as he and his pastors went on at length about how New Orleans was a hotbed for sinners, drug users, gamblers and the like, and they had it coming. It was the Lord's way of making them pay for their sins. Any "innocent" loses were chalked up to being martyrs and having to give their life in the wake of God's work. I was formulating my plan on how to approach getting up and walking out when Grandpappy beat me to the punch. It was quite amazing, really; this old dude was hardcore and had been donating thousands of dollars a year to the church for most of his life. He said he couldn't stand to listen to it anymore and we left.

This is the church that is trying to lure kids into their fold with the promise of games, movies and hot dogs. Fun!

Yeah, I'm gonna side with you guys on this one.

My only question: Why is this in the toaster oven thread?

Are these disparate events going to all come together in the end like in Short-Cuts or Traffic or something.

First--there are a lot of Christians that would get up and leave during that sermon, myself included.

Second--I understand its a funny little joke. But then again, its indicative of how a lot of people in this country feel about faith, and to a greater extent Christianity.

I thought the sticker was pretty funny and I can see the bait and switch tactics being annoying. And frankly, the whole idea that is strong in many Christian churches about the benefits of trying to convert people is about the most offensive thing about the church to me, really. Go ahead and believe in ghost stories if you'd like, but don't walk around thinking you are doing some greater good by trying to convince others that the head ghost is gonna roast them in hell if they fail to praise him enough.

And yes, when a church tries to get bored kids with nothing better to do to come in for free events and tries to get all hip to lure them in and offers free entertainment then springs the Jesus on them after they get there I don't see what else that is called if not recruitment.

No such thing as a free lunch. Everyone knows this.

But I think you guys are being a little harsh about the intentions of the church. All they're trying to do is make church as appealable to the youth as possible, which every organization in America does including all of your precious green groups. There is no grand evil scheme to eat the brains of youth or anything.

Well, I do not trust organized religion in any form. That's the way I feel; that is my opinion. Can I defend this feeling with great diplomacy and articulately? No. Probably has to do with the way I was raised and the intermittant encounters I have had with such things during my life thus far.

Plus, the phrase "Movie may contain Jesus" is just funny.

Not all are like this. It kinda stinks that the "Turn or Burn" people are the loudest.

Rabbit, I getcha, but there's still an intentional mismatch between the flier and the actual event.

The flier says "LET'S HAVE PIZZA AND HOT DOGS AND WATCH A MOVIE" and nothing else.

...and at the event, those things will happen, but they are not the intent of the event by its organizers. The intent is to recruit, to proselytize, and that intent is intentionally left off the flier. Why? My answer (yours may vary) is that the church knows that many people would not show up unless:

1. There was free food / entertainment. (That's not a great thing.)
2. The attendees had no idea the actual intent was to get them to convert.

...otherwise why not put it all out on the flier? Why the ruse? I don't know if I buy tanner's idea that everyone who shows up knows they're going to get preached to, like some sort of "free" vacation where you have to endure 6 hours of hard sell on timeshares.

If the intent was to get food into bellies, there are more efficient ways to do it. If the intent were to introduce people to the church, SAY SO. Anything else, to me, is a little off and not something to be proud of (or defend).

But, once again...Modem said that everyone knows that its a church. I mean if McDonald's puts up on their marquee that they have hamburgers, and someone goes in, are they gonna be like "oh, I thought I was getting a Red Robin!"

not to prolong a new Obner meme that may be past its expiration date, but



"everyone"


The reason his joke lands with a lot of folks (or at least me) is that ruse I've been asking you about. It's funny because people recognize the slight of hand, however ineffective it may be... the concession the church is essentially making by saying "if we don't hide our name and promise free food then nobody will show up to our recruiting event."

Yeah, it's bait and switch. No problem holding an event talking about jesus if it is advertised as such. nothign wrong with a church making church events friendlier to young people.

But, it is wrong to lure people in on false pretenses to try to recruit them to your way of thinking. If any organization not called a christian church did this, they would be accused of being a cult trying to brainwash the youth of America.

And I'm betting those flyers are all over town and just have an address without mentioning church...so you see the flyer, think you are going someplace, make a plna and not until you get there do you know...oh...a church. Sure, they know after they are duped once. but, clearly leaving the fact they are a church off the fliers is done with intent.

I don't have any business taping a small sign to their bigger sign. Just comedy.

And, I have to agree that perhaps the whole ruse factor, at least in this case, is moot. The particular sign I tagged is right on the church door. And really, who are they going to attract with these posters anyway (on the church or around the block)? Homeless folks, mostly. Is the church really interested in converting the homeless?

But the debate could remain in regards to the more youth-oriented flyers they stuff into mailboxes and the like. Maybe not neccesarily here, in this thread.

I hate to break it to you. They don't say, "let's try and I hide what we are to get the kids" when they plan these things. They say, "I think the kids like pizza and movies, maybe if we give away free pizza and movies we can get the kids to come here."

It's not a time share deal. I've organized 1000 events. And if you want to get anyone outside of the hardcore base, you're going to try and give something away for free. I used to plan events for a non-religious child organization, and we always did things like this. The better the food the better the crowd.

Hey guys, all organizations try to get new members. It's the world and it's not unique to churches.

I say flip it on them, go and get your free pizza, hotdog, toaster, whatever, and then bounce. That's how I ate for free several times in college.

(1) It was a joke. I request that those of you offended in some way by this lighten up.

(2) It was made funny (in addition to the wording) by exposing the very thing the church consciously left off the flier to lure people into the place. Yes, it is indicative of how many feel about churches and religion in this country, but there's a reason for that: this very kind of action, or door to door salespeople giving a hard sell on their particular faith. People are tired of this.

I agree you give away free stuff. Then again, most non-churches would also put the name of their organization on their materials too. There's a difference.

I'm pretty offended by the fact that you think your beliefs have any value to anyone else, as well.

Also, I always get a little irritated when people refer to the "christian church" as a single organization.

Thank you.


edit: I mean, "Thank You! Goodnight! I'm outta here! Be good!"

Yes, because this is nto a board where anyone shares any of their thoughts about anything. How silly of me.

It gets referred to that way because y'all share a common core belief that is exclusive to churches of a christian bent.

I have no strong feeling about toaster ovens one way or the other...although I do enjoy that they heat up quicker than a regular stove.

I think the sign is hilarious, and not offended in the least bit. I think Modem should do more of it.

I just think the moral outrage by the board moralist over the church trying to give away free food is pretty funny too. Some things are not an evil plot by churches.

Would be better suited for an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.