Man, people get too worked up about shit.

Not to be all down on Whiney specifically (I watched only a few minutes of his rant), but I'm so fucking tired of people going on these tirades about what's wrong with music today or what's wrong with music writing today or what's wrong with ________ today. I hope I don't do this or come across as doing this, but maybe I do. Mostly it all just seems like "WAH WAH WAH THINGS AREN'T WHAT USED TO BE". Things change. Everyone has to deal with it.

Maybe things change BECAUSE of the tirades - ever think of that, hmmmm?

I'm sure some people would like to believe that.

I don't think tirades created Twitter, myspace, file sharing, or the death of many music publications.

i'm really glad that file sharing has killed off so many shitty writers/critics. Weingarten and the like are bitter and irrelevant.

also, he's talking out of his ass. Firsties has been around forever, wasn't created by Twitter, and i'm sure he's been guilty of it. music critics always want to be the one to break some news about some band.

well dalen, it's kinda their job.

There's nothing wrong with Weingarten as a writer, and I don't think he's irrelevant. He's right about a lot of stuff that's annoying, too. It is annoying. It's also incredibly easy to ignore if you're not actively involved with it, but I guess he is.

I really want to disagree with Dalen (it's kinda my thing) but largely, I can't. Not on this one. And I've got straight-up man-love for Whiney. Saw him do the gestal form of this rant at SXSW and feel the same way now as I did then; that time has passed by. He knows that too and some of this is him perpetuating the "I'm mad as hell!"/Broadcast News thing he's really good at since I'm sure he gets some pay and good contacts doing the new media circuit. Anything to pay the bills, right?

The appeal to me in music journalism has always been coverage of music news, and where music, money, the law and any other social fabric rub up against one another. That's what I dig, and in many forms are the kind of music writing that impacts people and is most likely to get shared/spread around. I ain't worth much as a critic (but I did it for a while and still do on occasion) but I'm miles better than about any music blogger and most print critics at getting at public records, building trust and finding news about music. But that baby's largely being tossed out in the digital bathwater as well, which as a producer and a consumer of that type of writing is most bothering.

listen fool, i'm responding to Whiney upset at the Firsties concept.

exactly. there was a time where we had to read about bands first, read the review and then went in search of the release, but that's over with now (maybe not entirely). instead of moaning about it, find new angles.

This sums up my philosophy on the world, and why I hate pretty much everyone.

This cracked me right up.

i didn't listen. but i stand by my post.

This brings up an interesting question. In terms of music writing, what do you all (by which I mean consumers instead of my side of the ledger) still value and find worthwhile?

Profiles? Scene reports and live reviews? News/legal coverage when warranted?

As a writer, I pretty much hate "so and so has a new album" puff profiles, unless there's some reasonably interesting angle going on which pretty much eliminates the "puff" aspect. I'll do 'em because they're easy money, but that's not what gets my motor running.
Example; our seasoned music writer at the Austin paper (as close to Lester Bangs as you'll find these days) has a story going up this Sunday about this largely forgotten 1930s Austin family of singers (called The Gant Family Singers) who wrote a bunch of oft-covered folk standards and were important enough that Alan Lomax had chronicled them back in the day. But nothing else ever written about them and their legacy (it's fascinating stuff) until this guy spent a month digging around Library of Congress reel to reels and Texas State History Museum documents, tracking down descendants and all that.
Word of his research and story has gotten out in the rabid folk nerd community and now NPR's working on this story as well.

THAT'S the kinda shit that I think still matters; shining a light on a little corner of the past and tracing its relevance to today. I don't fret much about criticism dying on the vine since that seems inevitable. But actual works of reporting and studied, considered research and writing are so closely linked to the entire troubled trade and that scares the shit out of (and disappoints) me.

hahaha, same.

i love artist documentaries, and pieces like the 33 1/3 series. i'm tired of reading what people think an album or band sounds like. i want to read about how shit was created, who died, who had the best coke, who fucked who's wife, etc.

He has a point. The problem though, is that culture and how we gather information is changing, so why would our music gathering habits not change as well? With so much information at our fingertips 24/7, its kinda naive to think that we wouldn't want the same luxury with music. People will always complain about puff pieces, and exclusives. To act like revenue is a new thing and that record companies haven't always pandered to media to build excitement is even more naive. This isn't a new phenomena. Different face, same guts. When people started getting their music/culture from MTV as opposed to AOR radio stations, I feel like the same rants happened.

Does it suck? Sure. But then again, I've seen a bunch of bands who had little or no PR rise up and overtake large powerhouses. That doesn't happen unless the internet fuels things.

Also, he mentions Pf and their lack of negative criticism (which, by the way was equally debated when it was around), but when did Rolling Stone/Spin/etc stop doing that? Probably not too long after if found out that if they only wrote positive reviews, they'd get the hot star on the cover.

That said, I really respect Whiney. I can see where he's coming from, and completely agree that there is a lot of junk out there, and that hype machine makes people believe they are on the tip of whats new.

Completely there with you. I also like pieces that introduce you to another genre via top 10 essential artists/records type of things. Sometimes the only thing stopping me from jumping in is not knowing where to dip my toes in.

I'll never have time or the desire to sample everything, and without something in the way of a description, comparisons, and some relative value judgments for me to take into consideration, I have no way of narrowing down my intake and choosing where to spend my time and money. Reviews can help with that, but I'll admit that I very, very rarely read them in their entirety.

As far as journalism stuff, I definitely like biographical stuff on artists and scenes that I like, and I like to have the obvious stuff, like when a new album or a tour are coming around. I wouldn't say that's my primary interest, though. I'm mostly interesting in feeding my addiction, finding more music. The journalistic stuff can help once I already know I'm interested in something, but it typically won't help me find anything new.

And see, here's where Whiney's argument gains traction; because of the rise of amateur hour blogs as a way to keep artists' names in the social sphere through track releases, video releases, album art releases and bullshit profiles, labels and managers can freeze out writers who are any threat to write about the coke/fucking/interesting side of things and tightly control access on all the rest. Like the privileged few getting all of 15 minutes in a NYC conference room with The White Stripes back in early '03 before "Elephant" was released, which is why all those profiles on them were so similar and dreadfully boring. I wanted to go record store shopping in Detroit with Jack White for 30 minutes in late '02 for NME and their publicist laughed at me.

That's the nut of Whiney's argument; a million tiny, crappy megaphones have made it close to impossible to produce very much that matters and resonates with people. There's still a ton of shitty writers out there who deserve no sympathy for having their trade evaporate. But in the process even the good ones - who are capable of doing the unbiased work that matters - are more and more walled off while the entire profession is dumbed down and left to rot.

Really? You don't need any filter? Just go listen to any random band?

I think there's still need for a filter of some kind. The need hasn't gone away. Its just that there are more options out there for getting information and few sources seem that reliable. It must suck to be a professional music writer though. I'd hate it too if all my clients decided my analysis wasn't any more useful than what they could get for free on random amateur blogs.

yeah, i'm still that guy that will go on a band name or cover artwork. bizarre, i know, but i've found some really great stuff that way (recently the xx, surfer blood, the morning benders, etc.). caught their name, and went to search out their music.

my filter is myself. i don't need a writer to guide me along. if i feel like listening to some 70's funk, i jump on Last.FM, search some names, and check them out.

i agree with this.

i find the best music writing is no longer in mags, or on the web, but in book form. when those amateur bloggers invade books, that's when shit really gets dark.

that matters on the web on shitty blogs, twitter, etc., but not in book form. am i correct?

great music writers and critics should be flooding us with books, or even websites that have the same value as well written books do.

Part of Whiney's SXSW bit was that curation and playlists from blogs have supplanted criticism in most cases. You gradually find blogs that reflect your tastes and use them as an ecosystem for finding out about stuff. The downside, though, is that if you're not adventurous like Dalen - and others who are willing to give just about anything a chance - most people don't step outside those comfy environs, and the chances of happening upon something great outside that sphere dwindles to close to zero. Playlists on blogs are the lazy way of finding new but in most cases homogenous types of music.

What's better, he said, are message boards where people can argue about stuff, get to know each other and build some currency so you'll give a record a chance if someone you dig and respect strongly backs it, even if it might be out of your comfort zone. We exchanged a nod after that point. Even though he doesn't get around here much, he was still wondering how everyone was doing and who from the board was in town for SXSW. "What's up with everyone over there? It seems a lot angrier like Hipinion when I check in these days."

A little perspective never hurts.