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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:27 pm 
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shiv Wrote:
wenchlette Wrote:
timmyjoe42 Wrote:

Also, Swisher.


man, how is he even considered for the last vote? worst stats of the 5.


I'm not voting in that thing because I can't bring myself to vote against Swish but I'm not voting for him because he's not really deserving. Youkalis and Konkero are more deserving in that order, but Swish certainly has better stats than Delmon Young and Michael Young.

The real question is what the hell was Charlie Manuel thinking in selecting Omar Infante to the NL squad. Infante reportedly thought he'd been traded when he got the call from his GM telling him he was an all-star.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:33 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
shiv Wrote:
wenchlette Wrote:
timmyjoe42 Wrote:

Also, Swisher.


man, how is he even considered for the last vote? worst stats of the 5.


I'm not voting in that thing because I can't bring myself to vote against Swish but I'm not voting for him because he's not really deserving. Youkalis and Konkero are more deserving in that order, but Swish certainly has better stats than Delmon Young and Michael Young.

The real question is what the hell was Charlie Manuel thinking in selecting Omar Infante to the NL squad. Infante reportedly thought he'd been traded when he got the call from his GM telling him he was an all-star.


i mean, i'm just going by the stats included in this link, which certainly isn't their entire stats but it seems like swisher is at the bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:01 pm 
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On Base %, Slugging %, OPS for the three:

Swisher: .375, .509, .883
M Young: .351, .484, .835
D. Young: .332, .488, .821

He gets on base more than either and out slugs them. He's also an average outfielder defensively where Delmon Young is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the league and Michael Young is below average defensively at third.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:07 pm 
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should we factor in line-up protection here? by the time a pitcher gets to Swisher he's probably beat the fuck up.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:21 pm 
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rparis74 Wrote:
should we factor in line-up protection here? by the time a pitcher gets to Swisher he's probably beat the fuck up.


Swisher has batted 2nd a lot this year. Jeter has had (for him) a subpar year in front of him and Texeira hitting 3rd got off to a terrible start. Texeira's start was so bad that he only recently passed Bret Gardner in slugging %. A-Rod also only recently started really hitting. When Swisher is not batting 2nd, he typically has batted 6th or 7th with guys like Granderson, Cervelli, Thames, or rookies batting behind him. I wouldn't say protection is much of an issue. Its been Cano, Swisher, and Brett Gardner oddly enough that have carried the team offensively for most of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:35 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
The real question is what the hell was Charlie Manuel thinking in selecting Omar Infante to the NL squad. Infante reportedly thought he'd been traded when he got the call from his GM telling him he was an all-star.



Well, Mr. Moneyball, maybe he thought Infante was the best "utility" player this year and not just a position player? I mean, he's owned the Phils this year and the position he's going in for is that new utility position and Infante can play 7 field positions and is hitting over .300. What, you want Votto in because he's "more deserving"? Newflash, the All Star game has nothing to do with deserve.

It's one part popularity contest, one part stats, and one part legacy (I'm looking at you Cal Ripken). No one knows who the fuck Votto is and it's Manuel's decision and one I agree with.

Even with those criteria, people still get screwed. Take my Braves for instance: Heyward is in (media darling right now?), Troy Glaus isn't (one of the better first halves AND a solid career with a recognizable name), and Chipper Jones isn't. Chipper has only been in the All Star game 6 times despite being one of the best players in baseball for 20 years (so even the legacy argument doesn't hold up sometimes).

Bottom line is that the All Star game is a ridiculous exercise that means NOTHING no matter how many Moneyball stats you throw out there.

Also, maybe Charlie Manuel is recognizing something else that most of the national media isn't, the Braves are doing something special with their 84 million this year and those players ALSO deserve to be recognized.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:16 am 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.


Agreed, as evidenced by the fact that he got more than 800,000 votes and looks like he is getting voted in on the final ballot.

I don't see how Omar Infante getting an all star spot is remotely defensable. Ok, he's a good utility guy. Repeat, he's a utility guy. Francisco Cervelli is having a very good year as a backup catcher for the Yankees. I'm not going to argue he should be an all star as a "new backup catcher" slot.

Taking your own criteria for inclusion based on a mix of popularity, stats and legacy, you can't build a case for Infante on any of the three. He's hit over .300 but that's it. Not enough. His ability to play a lot of positions is valuable on a 25 man squad but its immaterial on an allstar squad where there are 3-4 players for each position. I just don't get what Manuel was thinking, other than that he's killed the Phillies. Even if you want to be a complete Homer for the Braves, Billy Wagner and Troy Glaus deserve consideration over him.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.


Do they? Both guys are sportstalk radio and cheapseats blog fodder right now.

Did anyone other than fantasy baseball geeks and people in the state of Ohio know him opening day 2010?


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Billy, this is the first year that a "utility" position will be allowed re-entry into the game. Both AL and NL managers have said they wanted someone highly versatile who could play multiple positions.

Should Votto get that because he deserves to get in? What if he has to be plugged in at Centerfield?


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:32 pm 
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I guess I just think the criticism of this decision is totally overblown especially when it was done as a strategy to WIN the game.

Infante isn't the picture of All Star but for what he's going to be there for he's been solid in that role this year.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:34 pm 
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can the Giants play the NL Central all the time. damn, they suck.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:

Infante isn't the picture of All Star but for what he's going to be there for he's been solid in that role this year.


Solid really shouldn't make an all-star.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.

Do they? Both guys are sportstalk radio and cheapseats blog fodder right now.

Did anyone other than fantasy baseball geeks and people in the state of Ohio know him opening day 2010?

votto had a 3HR game in 2008 that got some pretty major press. (i remember that clearly because he was on my fantasy team's bench that day.) also, last year he got some attention for being a pussy because he went on the DL for depression and anxiety. oh, and dude can mash.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:51 pm 
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Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.

Do they? Both guys are sportstalk radio and cheapseats blog fodder right now.

Did anyone other than fantasy baseball geeks and people in the state of Ohio know him opening day 2010?

votto had a 3HR game in 2008 that got some pretty major press. (i remember that clearly because he was on my fantasy team's bench that day.) also, last year he got some attention for being a pussy because he went on the DL for depression and anxiety. oh, and dude can mash.


The fantasy league geeks knew who he was 4 or 5 years ago when he was one of the best up and coming prospects in baseball. He's been a damn good major league regular for the past three years now. He was runner up Rookie of the Year in 2008 and he actually got MVP votes last year when he hit .322 with 25 HR. He's not an unknown guy even if he plays in a small to mid market and is still young.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:04 pm 
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i know votto is good cuz i cut him from my fantasy team at the start of the year

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:38 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
Z Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
No one knows who the fuck Votto is

i'm pretty sure more people know joey votto than omar infante.


Do they? Both guys are sportstalk radio and cheapseats blog fodder right now.

Did anyone other than fantasy baseball geeks and people in the state of Ohio know him opening day 2010?


Votto is a better player than Infante. Votto has been the opening day first baseman for 3 years now while Infante hasn't played more than 100 games the last 4 seasons.

In the last month, Glaus is hitting .205 with only 3 home runs, which are pretty terrible stats when being considered for the all-star game.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:34 pm 
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I don't even know where to begin with you Timmy.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
I guess I just think the criticism of this decision is totally overblown especially when it was done as a strategy to WIN the game.

Infante isn't the picture of All Star but for what he's going to be there for he's been solid in that role this year.


Every position has an all-star starter as a backup, but you think the selection of Infante is a strategy that is going to win the game for the NL. lol

Were you saying Glaus and Chipper got screwed and should have been selected because they are a legacy?

Just tell me you think Glaus should be in with his .257 average because he has 14 home runs, but Votto doesn't because he isn't a household name and is only hitting .315 with 22 homers.


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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:37 am 
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hamilton

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:54 am 
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JAKE PEAVY FUCK

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:22 pm 
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from espn.com :banana:

Quote:
A trade that would send Mariners left-hander Cliff Lee to the Yankees was "just about done" on Friday morning, according to an executive involved in the trade talks.

The Mariners have been pushing hard to complete the trade, but as of Friday morning there was no agreement in place, sources said, and it was possible another team could have stepped in to make a more aggressive bid.


The Mariners had also been talking with the Rays, Twins, Rangers, Reds and other teams, and news that the Yankees were on the verge of getting Lee -- first reported by the New York Post -- could have spurred one of the other teams to strengthen their offer.

But all along, the Yankees have believed no other team matches up better than they would with Seattle in a Lee deal because they are offering prospect Jesus Montero, who figures to have a long and productive career as a hitter regardless of whether he plays catcher or first base.

A baseball official with knowledge of the Yankees' thinking told ESPNNewYork.com's Andrew Marchand they view Montero as a plus-hitter and think he has improved his catching skills, though, among other things, he still needs some work on his accuracy on throws to second despite his powerful arm. The Yankees also like double-A prospect Austin Romine and project him as a possible .275, 20-homer catcher. If they traded Montero, Romine would make the move easier for the organization to absorb.

But the lingering question in their internal debate has been whether expending a trade piece such as Montero would be worthwhile, and in recent seasons, the Yankees have passed on acquiring Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Roy Halladay under similar circumstances. And the Yankees' rotation is good enough to win without Lee.

But the Yankees know that one of the AL East powers is going to be on the outside looking in at the conclusion of the regular-season jockeying, and they saw first-hand last October just how good Lee can be.

They have been well aware of the potential impact of Lee in another contender's rotation, as he was in helping the Philadelphia Phillies reach the World Series for the second straight season.

More On The Yankees

Want to get the scoop on everything in pinstripes? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered. Blog

The Mariners might feel compelled to move Lee as quickly as possible for a couple of reasons. First, the sooner they move him, the more they can extract in their asking price, and secondly, there is always the inherent risk that Lee, who has had multiple abdominal strains in his career, could get hurt, which would completely gut his trade value.

Lee might be the closest thing baseball has seen to a sure thing on the trade market in years, because he demonstrated in 2009, after being traded from the Indians to the Phillies, that he is capable of pitching well in a pennant race, and that he responds well while on the postseason stage.

The Twins would look like a different team with Lee joining Francisco Liriano and Scott Baker at the front end of their rotation, and the Texas Rangers would become a more viable threat in the postseason.

The Twins were strongly considering including their top catching prospect, Wilson Ramos, in an offer, an official with knowledge of their thinking told ESPNNewYork.com's Marchand. With Joe Mauer in the fold, Ramos is expendable. The Twins know they would likely lose Lee in free agency, but have reasoned that they could make up for Ramos' loss with the extra draft pick.

If the Rays had stepped outside of their necessarily disciplined approach -- which has worked exceedingly well for them -- and acquired Lee for Jeremy Hellickson, or Wade Davis and Desmond Jennings, then they would have gone into the postseason with the extraordinary rotation of Lee, David Price and Jeff Niemann, with Matt Garza perhaps free to work out of the bullpen.

On Wednesday night, the Mariners had thrown a huge asking price at the Yankees and the Yankees said no. But then Seattle general manager Jack Zduriencik doubled back Thursday and lowered his demands around Montero.

So now the Yankees could have a rotation of Sabathia, Lee, Andy Pettitte, Phil Hughes and A.J. Burnett. Presumably, they could trade Javier Vazquez to a contender in the next 72 hours.

The Phillies could be a front-runner, and they've made outfielder Jayson Werth available in the past.

The Yankees already were viewed as the favorites to land Lee in free agency, and while they are considering moving Montero and others now, they will not have to surrender their first-round pick in order to sign the left-hander.

Talks between the Yankees and Mariners haven't included discussion of a negotiating window on a contract extension for Lee, and there won't be, a source said.

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Twilightkid Wrote:
from espn.com :banana:

Quote:
A trade that would send Mariners left-hander Cliff Lee to the Yankees was "just about done" on Friday morning, according to an executive involved in the trade talks.

The Mariners have been pushing hard to complete the trade, but as of Friday morning there was no agreement in place, sources said, and it was possible another team could have stepped in to make a more aggressive bid.


The Mariners had also been talking with the Rays, Twins, Rangers, Reds and other teams, and news that the Yankees were on the verge of getting Lee -- first reported by the New York Post -- could have spurred one of the other teams to strengthen their offer.

But all along, the Yankees have believed no other team matches up better than they would with Seattle in a Lee deal because they are offering prospect Jesus Montero, who figures to have a long and productive career as a hitter regardless of whether he plays catcher or first base.

A baseball official with knowledge of the Yankees' thinking told ESPNNewYork.com's Andrew Marchand they view Montero as a plus-hitter and think he has improved his catching skills, though, among other things, he still needs some work on his accuracy on throws to second despite his powerful arm. The Yankees also like double-A prospect Austin Romine and project him as a possible .275, 20-homer catcher. If they traded Montero, Romine would make the move easier for the organization to absorb.

But the lingering question in their internal debate has been whether expending a trade piece such as Montero would be worthwhile, and in recent seasons, the Yankees have passed on acquiring Johan Santana, CC Sabathia and Roy Halladay under similar circumstances. And the Yankees' rotation is good enough to win without Lee.

But the Yankees know that one of the AL East powers is going to be on the outside looking in at the conclusion of the regular-season jockeying, and they saw first-hand last October just how good Lee can be.

They have been well aware of the potential impact of Lee in another contender's rotation, as he was in helping the Philadelphia Phillies reach the World Series for the second straight season.

More On The Yankees

Want to get the scoop on everything in pinstripes? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered. Blog

The Mariners might feel compelled to move Lee as quickly as possible for a couple of reasons. First, the sooner they move him, the more they can extract in their asking price, and secondly, there is always the inherent risk that Lee, who has had multiple abdominal strains in his career, could get hurt, which would completely gut his trade value.

Lee might be the closest thing baseball has seen to a sure thing on the trade market in years, because he demonstrated in 2009, after being traded from the Indians to the Phillies, that he is capable of pitching well in a pennant race, and that he responds well while on the postseason stage.

The Twins would look like a different team with Lee joining Francisco Liriano and Scott Baker at the front end of their rotation, and the Texas Rangers would become a more viable threat in the postseason.

The Twins were strongly considering including their top catching prospect, Wilson Ramos, in an offer, an official with knowledge of their thinking told ESPNNewYork.com's Marchand. With Joe Mauer in the fold, Ramos is expendable. The Twins know they would likely lose Lee in free agency, but have reasoned that they could make up for Ramos' loss with the extra draft pick.

If the Rays had stepped outside of their necessarily disciplined approach -- which has worked exceedingly well for them -- and acquired Lee for Jeremy Hellickson, or Wade Davis and Desmond Jennings, then they would have gone into the postseason with the extraordinary rotation of Lee, David Price and Jeff Niemann, with Matt Garza perhaps free to work out of the bullpen.

On Wednesday night, the Mariners had thrown a huge asking price at the Yankees and the Yankees said no. But then Seattle general manager Jack Zduriencik doubled back Thursday and lowered his demands around Montero.

So now the Yankees could have a rotation of Sabathia, Lee, Andy Pettitte, Phil Hughes and A.J. Burnett. Presumably, they could trade Javier Vazquez to a contender in the next 72 hours.

The Phillies could be a front-runner, and they've made outfielder Jayson Werth available in the past.

The Yankees already were viewed as the favorites to land Lee in free agency, and while they are considering moving Montero and others now, they will not have to surrender their first-round pick in order to sign the left-hander.

Talks between the Yankees and Mariners haven't included discussion of a negotiating window on a contract extension for Lee, and there won't be, a source said.


this sucks in a million different ways

just when i thought i couldn't possibly hate the yankees any more than i already do...

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:40 pm 
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The Yanks have the prospects the Mariners want...plain and simple..

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 Post subject: Re: MLB 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:11 pm 
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Twilightkid Wrote:
The Yanks have the prospects the Mariners want...plain and simple..


Name the last Yankees prospect, so highly touted, to blossom into stardom.

The ones they've kept, Joba, Hughes, Cano, have had moments of brilliance -- &, yes, the last of those three is having an MVP type year*, but otherwise... Where's the beef?

The Yanks prospect are highly touted, so highly touted, due to being in the Yankees organization.

The Mariners, then, would be stupid to take this deal.


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