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 Post subject: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:26 am 
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Bob Dylan's first album is a lot like the debut albums by the Beatles and the Rolling Stones -- a sterling effort, outclassing most, if not all, of what came before it in the genre, but similarly eclipsed by the artist's own subsequent efforts. The difference was that not very many people heard Bob Dylan on its original release (originals on the early-'60s Columbia label are choice collectibles) because it was recorded with a much smaller audience and musical arena in mind. At the time of Bob Dylan's release, the folk revival was rolling, and interpretation was considered more important than original composition by most of that audience. A significant portion of the record is possessed by the style and spirit of Woody Guthrie, whose influence as a singer and guitarist hovers over "Man of Constant Sorrow" and "Pretty Peggy-O," as well as the two originals here, the savagely witty "Talkin' New York" and the poignant "Song to Woody"; and it's also hard to believe that he wasn't aware of Jimmie Rodgers and Roy Acuff when he cut "Freight Train Blues." But on other songs, one can also hear the influences of Bukka White, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Willie Johnson, and Furry Lewis, in the playing and singing, and this is where Dylan departed significantly from most of his contemporaries. Other white folksingers of the era, including his older contemporaries Eric Von Schmidt and Dave Van Ronk, had incorporated blues in their work, but Dylan's presentation was more in your face, resembling in some respects (albeit in a more self-conscious way) the work of John Hammond, Jr., the son of the man who signed Dylan to Columbia Records and produced this album, who was just starting out in his own career at the time this record was made. There's a punk-like aggressiveness to the singing and playing here. His raspy-voiced delivery and guitar style were modeled largely on Guthrie's classic '40s and early-'50s recordings, but the assertiveness of the bluesmen he admires also comes out, making this one of the most powerful records to come out of the folk revival of which it was a part. Within a year of its release, Dylan, initially in tandem with young folk/protest singers like Peter, Paul & Mary and Phil Ochs, would alter the boundaries of that revival beyond recognition, but this album marked the pinnacle of that earlier phase, before it was overshadowed by this artist's more ambitious subsequent work. In that regard, the two original songs here serve as the bridge between Dylan's stylistic roots, as delineated on this album, and the more powerful and daringly original work that followed. One myth surrounding this album should also be dispelled here -- his version of "House of the Rising Sun" here is worthwhile, but the version that was the inspiration for the Animals' recording was the one by Josh White.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:35 am 
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This one looks interesting to me. I've listened to Dylan a good deal, but mostly just his golden era stuff and a few later works that I found underwhelming. The early days stuff I've been meaning to dig into for years. This may just motivate me.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:54 am 
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I would have loved to be in the room when John Hammond delivered this debut album by his new signing to Columbia execs. I'm pretty sure it was all WTF faces looking back at him. And from what I've read, everyone at Columbia thought this was going to be John Hammond's biggest failure and might cost him his job. You have to credit Hammond for being a visionary.

The two originals, Talkin' New York and Song to Woody (especially Song to Woody) showed the brilliance to come. But mostly, this is really average folk fare. I mean you can tell that Dylan was bigger than the NYC folk scene and the covers display a talent that far exceeds Dave Van Ronk or Peter Paul and Mary. Still, you can't hope but wish Columbia and Dylan would have unleashed more of his natural song writing talent when he was this hungry.

One exception to these covers - Baby Let Me Follow You Down. Dylan has always made this song his own. As a staple of his early touring, there are lots of versions of this song available. My favorite is not here but it's great nonetheless. My favorite version is on Prince Royal Albert Concert when does a rocking mind fuck version of it.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Man, as I'm listening to this, I take back Freight Train being average. It's an amazing cover.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:07 pm 
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nobody Wrote:
This one looks interesting to me. I've listened to Dylan a good deal, but mostly just his golden era stuff and a few later works that I found underwhelming. The early days stuff I've been meaning to dig into for years. This may just motivate me.


What are you calling golden era - Bringing It All Back Home? Because Freewheelin' is the first great album in my mind but I'd also call it his early stuff.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:08 pm 
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I forget how raw the voice has always been as well. He sounds like he left Hibbing at age 78.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:23 pm 
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i don't contribute much, but love these threads.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Kingfish Wrote:
nobody Wrote:
This one looks interesting to me. I've listened to Dylan a good deal, but mostly just his golden era stuff and a few later works that I found underwhelming. The early days stuff I've been meaning to dig into for years. This may just motivate me.


What are you calling golden era - Bringing It All Back Home? Because Freewheelin' is the first great album in my mind but I'd also call it his early stuff.


Yeah, I'd say the stuff where he went electric and the next couple albums...basically the 3-4 albums that pretty much are always the ones people argue for when asked what his best album is.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:27 pm 
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I like the early stuff...but things don't click for me until Another Side Of...

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:35 pm 
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not sure I've listened to this album all the way through more than 3 or 4 times. i'm going to have to add some of these to my iphone for this project. i remember being pretty underwhelmed by this when I first heard it...not that surprising as it was probably the 9th or 10th Dylan album I picked up.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Kingfish Wrote:
I would have loved to be in the room when John Hammond delivered this debut album by his new signing to Columbia execs. I'm pretty sure it was all WTF faces looking back at him. And from what I've read, everyone at Columbia thought this was going to be John Hammond's biggest failure and might cost him his job. You have to credit Hammond for being a visionary.


Perhaps a visionary, but I think (a little more than many would like to admit through the haze of time and deserved admiration for what Dylan became) Hammond had another mission- to convince the Columbia folks there was a piece of that new-fangled folk music pie to be had.

Quote:
The two originals, Talkin' New York and Song to Woody (especially Song to Woody) showed the brilliance to come. But mostly, this is really average folk fare. I mean you can tell that Dylan was bigger than the NYC folk scene and the covers display a talent that far exceeds Dave Van Ronk or Peter Paul and Mary. Still, you can't hope but wish Columbia and Dylan would have unleashed more of his natural song writing talent when he was this hungry.


Not so sure I agree with the "display a talent that far exceeds...". I never heard anything on this album beyond workman-like versions of the same songs that every other period folkie was doing in the same workman-like manner. Lastly, as far as unleashing more of his natural song writing talent when he was hungry (i.e., on this record), I'd say that would have been tough sledding, because I don't think he'd found his muse. Granted, he found it and showed the whole damned world 14 months later, but at the time this one was recorded? I'm thinking no. And, he was still pretty hungry after the release of this one.

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One exception to these covers - Baby Let Me Follow You Down. Dylan has always made this song his own. As a staple of his early touring, there are lots of versions of this song available. My favorite is not here but it's great nonetheless. My favorite version is on Prince Royal Albert Concert when does a rocking mind fuck version of it.


No argument with this whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:50 pm 
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tentoze Wrote:

Not so sure I agree with the "display a talent that far exceeds...". I never heard anything on this album beyond workman-like versions of the same songs that every other period folkie was doing in the same workman-like manner. Lastly, as far as unleashing more of his natural song writing talent when he was hungry (i.e., on this record), I'd say that would have been tough sledding, because I don't think he'd found his muse. Granted, he found it and showed the whole damned world 14 months later, but at the time this one was recorded? I'm thinking no. And, he was still pretty hungry after the release of this one.


I think we're actually saying the same thing. The covers are completely average. I guess I'm only saying that (with the lens of hindsight of course) there's a little glint of a spark that Dave Van Ronk et all just didn't have of a greatness that lies underneath.

As far displaying his talent on this album - I think he showed it was there with the 2 originals. But I don't think this album could have ever been Freewheelin' for the reasons you stated. But I think there could have been more to it than just 2-3 songs worth of a listen. Some more gems that would cause me to describe the album as "uneven" rather than mostly forgettable.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:11 pm 
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maybe average, but i've always had issue getting into bob dylan, but i thoroughly enjoyed listening to this this afternoon.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Dalen Wrote:
i don't contribute much, but love these threads.


Yeah I don't like listening to that much of any artist in a short time period enough to participate but I do enjoy the threads.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:28 am 
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It's hard to overestimate the importance of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, the record that firmly established Dylan as an unparalleled songwriter, one of considerable skill, imagination, and vision. At the time, folk had been quite popular on college campuses and bohemian circles, making headway onto the pop charts in diluted form, and while there certainly were a number of gifted songwriters, nobody had transcended the scene as Dylan did with this record. There are a couple (very good) covers, with "Corrina Corrina" and "Honey Just Allow Me One More Chance," but they pale with the originals here. At the time, the social protests received the most attention, and deservedly so, since "Blowin' in the Wind," "Masters of War," and "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" weren't just specific in their targets; they were gracefully executed and even melodic. Although they've proven resilient throughout the years, if that's all Freewheelin' had to offer, it wouldn't have had its seismic impact, but this also revealed a songwriter who could turn out whimsy ("Don't Think Twice, It's All Right"), gorgeous love songs ("Girl From the North Country"), and cheerfully absurdist humor ("Bob Dylan's Blues," "Bob Dylan's Dream") with equal skill. This is rich, imaginative music, capturing the sound and spirit of America as much as that of Louis Armstrong, Hank Williams, or Elvis Presley. Dylan, in many ways, recorded music that equaled this, but he never topped it.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:13 am 
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If anyone's interested:

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1 Bob Dylan Baby Please Don't Go 02:00
2 Bob Dylan Corrina Corrina 03:08
3 Bob Dylan The Death of Emmett Till 04:16
4 Bob Dylan Mixed Up Confusion 02:23
5 Bob Dylan Lonesome Whistle Blues 02:04
6 Bob Dylan Talkin' John Birch Paranoid .. 03:44
7 Bob Dylan Milkcow's Calf Blues 02:32
8 Bob Dylan That's Alright, Mama 03:21
9 Bob Dylan Rocks and Gravel 02:51
10 Bob Dylan Going to New Orleans 03:08
11 Bob Dylan Let Me Die in my Footsteps 04:02
12 Bob Dylan The Ballad of Hollis Brown 05:03
13 Bob Dylan Wichita 02:56
14 Bob Dylan Sally Gal 03:15
15 Bob Dylan Mixed Up Confusion 02:08
16 Bob Dylan Whatcha Gonna Do 02:32
17 Bob Dylan Rocks and Gravel 02:15
18 Bob Dylan That's Alright, Mama 02:09
19 Bob Dylan Rocks and Gravel 02:18
20 Bob Dylan Corrina Corrina 02:31
21 Bob Dylan Milkcow's Calf Blues 02:45
22 Bob Dylan Wichita 03:03
23 Bob Dylan Whatcha Gonna Do 02:58
24 Bob Dylan Baby I'm In the Mood for You 02:44
25 Bob Dylan Sally Gal 02:20


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:38 am 
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I read "Gar Saga" as "Gaga."

That is all.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:56 am 
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Listening to Freewheelin' now - I'll definitely be joining in on this listening party as much as possible.

I've always been amazed that Dylan went from a debut album of almost all covers to writing one of the most influential and important albums of the 60's within a year.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:03 am 
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I always thought freewheelin' was pretty overrated.

Also, Fuck Blowin' In The Wind. I hate that fucking song.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:31 am 
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So it's not only amazing that he drops this second album, but it contains "Girl from the North Country", "Masters of War", "A Hard Rain's a-Gonna Fall" and "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right". I mean, one or two of those would have been fucking awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:36 am 
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Don't Think Twice It's Alright is just fucking awesome. I never tire of it.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:39 am 
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Sex, Drugs, and Dave Wrote:
I always thought freewheelin' was pretty overrated.

Also, Fuck Blowin' In The Wind. I hate that fucking song.


Freewheelin isn't overrated. In fact, I think it's on the under side. But Blowin' In the Wind is overrated. I think it's one of the lesser songs on this album. But I can see in the context of the 60s and the zeitgeist of those times, how it was the cornerstone of creating Dylan's reputation in the beginning.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Kingfish Wrote:
Don't Think Twice It's Alright is just fucking awesome. I never tire of it.


Agreed, probably my favorite Dylan song of all.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Kingfish Wrote:
Sex, Drugs, and Dave Wrote:
I always thought freewheelin' was pretty overrated.

Also, Fuck Blowin' In The Wind. I hate that fucking song.


Freewheelin isn't overrated. In fact, I think it's on the under side. But Blowin' In the Wind is overrated. I think it's one of the lesser songs on this album. But I can see in the context of the 60s and the zeitgeist of those times, how it was the cornerstone of creating Dylan's reputation in the beginning.


Yeah, holy shit. Of all the records that could be described as overrated, I wouldn't use that label for the record. I mean, I don't really ever want to hear 'Blowin'' again and as hard as it is to separate it away from the decades of covers and folkie shit, it's still amazing.

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