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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Radcliffe Wrote:
seafoam Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
rparis74 Wrote:
And what they want to do is give more tax breaks to real estate developers.


:banana: :rockbanana:


Double Double :banana: :rockbanana:

It surprises me developments get off the ground with all the preceding state and local costs to break ground, and that's Florida. I could not begin to imagine a state like Massachusetts, Oregon, Cali or similar.

Yeah, if there's one group of people that have had it rough over the last 30 years it's real estate developers.



Yeah, the enemy building buildings for offices, small businesses, even homes and shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:38 pm 
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harry Wrote:
Tea Party's going to have difficulty staying together with boardroom Repubs as "more deregulation for Wall St and real estate developers" isn't exactly what all the anger was about. It's going to be an interesting two years. BO will challenged in the primaries 2012 - wonder who will step up, probably Kucinich or simiilar. BO is re-elected w/52% - although not sure that's the best thing for progressive ideals.


Kucinich won't run in 2012. He might try it in 2016, when one way, or another, the field will be open.

No, the most likely primarying of Obama will come courtesy of Ol' Soft-wood himself, Evan Bayh.

Mark it.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:49 pm 
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toots Wrote:


Buried in this is a link to the New Yorker feature on the Koch Brothers who are widely-known as the "underground" funders of and architects of the anti-progressive "Tea Party". They're obviously brilliant manipulators of the mentally challenged and mad-as-hell white Americans.

Todd Snider Wrote:
Conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American male.
Gay bashin’, black fearin’, poor fightin’, tree killin’, regional leaders of the South
Frat housin’, keg tappin’, shirt tuckin’, back slappin’ haters of hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, porn watchin’ lazyass hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, love makin’, pro choicen, gay weddin’, widespread diggin’ hippies like me.
Skin color-blinded, conspiracy-minded, protestors of corporate greed,
We who have nothing and most likely will ‘till we all wind up locked up in jails
By conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American males,.

Diamonds and dogs, boys and girls, living together in two separate worlds
Following leaders of mountains of shame, looking for someone to blame.

Diamonds and dogs, boys and girls, living together in two separate worlds
Following leaders of mountains of shame, looking for someone to blame.
I know who I like to blame:

Conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American males,
Soul savin’, flag wavin’, Rush lovin’, land pavin’ personal friends to the Quayles
Quite diligently workin’ so hard to keep the free reins of this Democracy
From tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, barefootin’ folk-singin’ hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, porn watchin’ lazyass hippies like me.




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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:23 pm 
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discostu Wrote:
toots Wrote:


Buried in this is a link to the New Yorker feature on the Koch Brothers who are widely-known as the "underground" funders of and architects of the anti-progressive "Tea Party". They're obviously brilliant manipulators of the mentally challenged and mad-as-hell white Americans.

Todd Snider Wrote:
Conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American male.
Gay bashin’, black fearin’, poor fightin’, tree killin’, regional leaders of the South
Frat housin’, keg tappin’, shirt tuckin’, back slappin’ haters of hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, porn watchin’ lazyass hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, love makin’, pro choicen, gay weddin’, widespread diggin’ hippies like me.
Skin color-blinded, conspiracy-minded, protestors of corporate greed,
We who have nothing and most likely will ‘till we all wind up locked up in jails
By conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American males,.

Diamonds and dogs, boys and girls, living together in two separate worlds
Following leaders of mountains of shame, looking for someone to blame.

Diamonds and dogs, boys and girls, living together in two separate worlds
Following leaders of mountains of shame, looking for someone to blame.
I know who I like to blame:

Conservative Christian, right wing Republican, straight, white, American males,
Soul savin’, flag wavin’, Rush lovin’, land pavin’ personal friends to the Quayles
Quite diligently workin’ so hard to keep the free reins of this Democracy
From tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, barefootin’ folk-singin’ hippies like me.
Tree huggin’, peace lovin’, pot smokin’, porn watchin’ lazyass hippies like me.




He did that song when I saw him earlier this year. Great show, and one funny muffugga.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:07 pm 
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seafoam Wrote:
Radcliffe Wrote:
seafoam Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
rparis74 Wrote:
And what they want to do is give more tax breaks to real estate developers.


:banana: :rockbanana:


Double Double :banana: :rockbanana:

It surprises me developments get off the ground with all the preceding state and local costs to break ground, and that's Florida. I could not begin to imagine a state like Massachusetts, Oregon, Cali or similar.

Yeah, if there's one group of people that have had it rough over the last 30 years it's real estate developers.



Yeah, the enemy building buildings for offices, small businesses, even homes and shit.


I've got no grudge against real estate developers, but aren't there enough empty houses out there already?


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:51 pm 
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frostingspoon

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whew. looks like we narrowly averted Governor Chris Dudley.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:01 am 
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If I could turn up a paying gig before Friday around noon, I'd stay here in Costa Rica. Indefinitely.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:56 am 
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Well it's a commonplace to remark that California is fulll of "fruits and nuts" and outside the mainstream (balancing by the also frequent observation that CA is a bellwether that presages what will happen in the other 49). But this election is bizarre. Here's a quote from LA Times by GOP strategist about the devastating impact on the party this election has had:

Quote:
Tuesday's vote "is a tectonic shift," said GOP strategist Adam Mendelsohn. "Republicans are going to have to think seriously about how to reestablish their relevance."

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:46 am 
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harry Wrote:
Well it's a commonplace to remark that California is fulll of "fruits and nuts" and outside the mainstream (balancing by the also frequent observation that CA is a bellwether that presages what will happen in the other 49). But this election is bizarre. Here's a quote from LA Times by GOP strategist about the devastating impact on the party this election has had:

Quote:
Tuesday's vote "is a tectonic shift," said GOP strategist Adam Mendelsohn. "Republicans are going to have to think seriously about how to reestablish their relevance."


And everywhere else in the country, the Dems feel the same. Losing 16 Legislative Chambers will have a bigger impact than you think. That's usually a party's "bench" to go to the next level. MN, IA, NH, AL all had 2 houses controlled by Ds and now have none.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:56 am 
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Acid Grandfather
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LooGAR teh Winnar! Wrote:
And everywhere else in the country, the Dems feel the same. Losing 16 Legislative Chambers will have a bigger impact than you think. That's usually a party's "bench" to go to the next level. MN, IA, NH, AL all had 2 houses controlled by Ds and now have none.


Well Dems do control POTUS, Senate... so "relevance" won't be as much a poblem as "productive"... but I totally agree, I think the state houses moving so dramatically Red is more of a concern (more indicative that the Dem brand is in trouble) than the loss of 60 seats in the House.

I just thought that the status of CA in the cycle was odd. In the 1994 swing CA followed national trends. I think it may be, in part, because we've experimented with "outsiders" (Ahnold) and been way, way less than satisfied with the results. And the Dems ran against the "heartless corporate hegemony who cut jobs and raised their own salaries...) (Whitman, Fiorina etc.). That is a message the Dems nationally are too afraid to run ("class warfare" should be an effective message after what's happened in the last ten years).

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:56 pm 
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"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. But he’s run off with all the toys."

Transcript of an excellent speech given by Moyers at Boston University on 10/29:

http://www.truth-out.org/bill-moyers-mo ... dirty64766


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:06 pm 
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When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:23 pm 
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So I thought that you all may find this entertaining. It's not entirely relevant to this thread, but relevant enough. This is an excerpt from a rather large piece that a friend of mine, editor of a local online news, arts, and culture magazine, wrote after attending a Tea Party event in Richmond, VA and an interview with our Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli who has been going after a local professor who received state grants for research on global warming and climate change. The video evidence is the best. Had me ROLLING:

AltDaily.com Wrote:
When it became clear that Cuccinelli wouldn’t be fielding questions in the media room, as promised by the organizers, Jay and I vowed to each other that we’d ask him at least one question, no matter what we had to do. After Cuccinelli left the stage he went behind a curtain. We followed him to the loading docks–a media credential and a confident stride will get you most places in this country. My heart raced; if the Tea Party beast had a belly, it was this cavernous concrete room.

“We’ve got to do this, right?” I asked Jay. He nodded. I put my hand on my chest to feel my heart and felt plastic on my shirt; I had forgotten that, in an ironic moment, I had stuck a “Cuccinelli for Attorney General” sticker over my breast pocket. I sidled up to my attorney general. He saw my sticker and smiled. I smiled back.

I asked him for his way of determining which academics to investigate. He swatted away my question in a way so odd and disarming I had to smile. I knew I only had time for one more question. I had to make it good.

“You’re a Catholic, right?”

He nodded.

“But you’re pro death penalty, which is against what the Pope said. So where do your allegiances ultimately lie, with the Catholic Church or with American rule of law?”

He put his hand on my shoulder and started shaking me. I’m a 195 pound man. I’m not a small man. And as you can see by the video, he physically moves my body back and forth.

“That is a truly offensive way to phrase a question,” he said. “We are done.” He called in the dogs. And off he went.


Video:


Link to full piece: http://www.altdaily.com/features/news/p ... party.html


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:56 pm 
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nobody Wrote:
When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


I'll take a stab:
There are various reasons but a stand out one is the clinging to Guns and God Values of the conservative agenda. Repubs pushing these lifestyle values is manna for the masses. It tends to break up the 98% and as a result a good part of the population tends to vote against their own self-interest, at least economically.

Anyone please contribute or elaborate or dismiss at will.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:04 pm 
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I think he overstates how much the guy pushes him.

I'm on the fence about, and have some reservations about this sort of you tube "gotcha!" stuff that goes on now. I'm sure it's the worst fear of someone like Loogs.

I guess the duality of it is this: while it is certainly more democratic for ordinary people who are not professional journalists to go around and ask people questions, (because they presumably don't feel like they are getting the whole story from other media outlets) I'm not sure it's ok to then use some minor missed word or phrase to castigate someone and run them out of office or off a ticket. That seems to me to be the antithesis of free speech.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:10 pm 
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seafoam Wrote:
nobody Wrote:
When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


I'll take a stab:
There are various reasons but a stand out one is the clinging to Guns and God Values of the conservative agenda. Repubs pushing these lifestyle values is manna for the masses. It tends to break up the 98% and as a result a good part of the population tends to vote against their own self-interest, at least economically.

Anyone please contribute or elaborate or dismiss at will.


It's a belief in a set of ideals that don't necessarily all jibe with one another (example: being against taxes but demanding a robust military).

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:26 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
It's a belief in a set of ideals that don't necessarily all jibe with one another (example: being against taxes but demanding a robust military).


"Liberals want to tell you what to do"

and yet

"Gays cannot marry, adopt, teach, serve in the military, or have sex with each other"
"All children must pray in public schools"

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:58 pm 
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seafoam Wrote:
nobody Wrote:
When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


I'll take a stab:
There are various reasons but a stand out one is the clinging to Guns and God Values of the conservative agenda. Repubs pushing these lifestyle values is manna for the masses. It tends to break up the 98% and as a result a good part of the population tends to vote against their own self-interest, at least economically.

Anyone please contribute or elaborate or dismiss at will.


People do things which are against their own self-interest all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:09 pm 
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case in point: Cheeseburger Tuesday

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:47 pm 
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nobody Wrote:
When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


Money = power.

and this article posted by tentoze discusses the United Plutocracy of America:

tentoze Wrote:
"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. But he’s run off with all the toys."

Transcript of an excellent speech given by Moyers at Boston University on 10/29:

http://www.truth-out.org/bill-moyers-mo ... dirty64766


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Stu (and Nobody and Tentoze) are spot on. There is a cultural physics involved (deeper than the Thomas Frank Kansas thing) in which power and privilege move events to their own advantage and result in the 98% embracing ideals and assumptions which are in absolute contradiction to their own self-interest. This contravenes the fantastical Adam Smith. Steering mechanisms in the public sphere, hidden or manifest, determine cultural reproduction.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:55 pm 
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It's not like it's a revelation that the wealthy and powerful run our country, it's that now it's much easier with the dumbing down of and subsequent brainwashing of the have-nots to manipulate them into serving those whose agenda contradicts their self-interest.

Read up on the Koch Brothers: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... fact_mayer


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
I think he overstates how much the guy pushes him.

I'm on the fence about, and have some reservations about this sort of you tube "gotcha!" stuff that goes on now. I'm sure it's the worst fear of someone like Loogs.

I guess the duality of it is this: while it is certainly more democratic for ordinary people who are not professional journalists to go around and ask people questions, (because they presumably don't feel like they are getting the whole story from other media outlets) I'm not sure it's ok to then use some minor missed word or phrase to castigate someone and run them out of office or off a ticket. That seems to me to be the antithesis of free speech.


I just got back on here now and am trying to catch up with all the other posts. I am assuming this was in response to my post? If so, I can't disagree, I just thought Cuccinelli's reaction to a rather benign question was a little over the top. Made me chuckle.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:11 pm 
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nobody Wrote:
When class warfare amounts to standing up for 98% of the country against the remaining 2% of the country, the idea the democrats have that is is somehow a losing strategy has always seemed completely absurd to me. Anybody know what I am missing?


The problem here is that you are making this a Taxation issue, when the election this go around was about Spending.


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