and mostly ignore the NHL

shit is getting spooky.

The other thing to consider is that part of the allure for smart people to teach, be cops, firefighters, or an accountant with the Failed State Department of Revenue is the fucking incentive package, and being able to retire sooner than those who do similar jobs in the private sector -- who will NEVER be able to retire.

You would think conservatives would understand things like incentives.

Also, the non-budget item portion of this bugger is about to be rammed through. I wish some union thug would go buck up in that piece ala Cousin Eddie.

why would we want smart people teaching and being cops?

I think you are underestimating the right wing hockey fan contingent.

I don't like hockey, so I am either black or a no-nothing.

@loogar: (and realistic information about teacher salaries) Actually comparable jobs is a problematic match. However, there is evidence that given similar educational levels (master's etc.) public employees make less that their counterparts in the private sector. "Make" being defined as total compensation package, including contribution to retirement systems. There are plenty of highly compensated individuals in the private sector who have made much more than teachers and will be able to retire earlier and better. There are pleny that won't be able to because they haven't been forced to contribute to a retirement system like teachers have.

Private school teachers do not have to be credentialed. Sometimes they do not even have college degrees, and certainly fewer have graduate degrees. They have not had an apprenticeship period, been evaluated in ways determined by law... they may be great teachers, but these are reasonable markers as to why one kind of teacher makes more than another.

It's not about collective bargaining nor challenging those long-held rights. Ha. Republican senators separate fiscal from restricting collective bargaining, do not give fair public notice of their meeting, and ram it through anyway. Thanks guys. Just gave couple hundred to the recall effort.s

Walker is a douchebag... pretty much admitted he was lying all along regarding the tie between collective bargaining and the budget. Well, duh. Hard to dismiss what he's doing now, since it's become glaringly obvious. I reiterate... douchebag.

one-termer

Not even. One year-er (after recall)

i hope the recall thing actually happens

Me too.

the two guys across my cubicle wall, one of whom is my boss, are loudly on Team Walker today


sennheisers are getting a lot of use at the moment

Hearing that makes me glad to work with a bunch of liberal hippie freaks.

Anyone taking bets on the recall? Him being recalled would pretty much mean electing him president. Pick your poison! I don't think Wisconsin can pull it off though.

You make it sound like the State of Wisconsin needs a very attractive compensation package to try to recruit a lot more employees when the problem is that they can't afford the ones they already have.

Besides, a lot of the allure of gubment jobs in the past has been their greater job security with the idea that you traded off a little in compensation for a lot more job security. Now it seems to be the opposite. All the surveys I see show most public sector employees make more in total compensation and benefits than their private sector equivalents and because of the budget problems, a lot are going to have to get laid off unless something gives.

Let's not pretend Walker did not inherit a surplus until he cut revenues.

The so-called surplus was a fictional one that relies on ignoring large unfunded liabilities and projected shortfalls in medicaid funding. In addition, pensions and other employee benefits shouldn't be viewed as a single year budget issue. They are a large structural problem which will only get worse with time.

You can debate the wisdom of Walker's tax cuts and it's possible that I would agree with you, they aren't the source of the problem though since they haven't even gone into effect yet.

The guy all but came out and said, especially with his latest action, that this whole thing was more about union busting and getting rid of collective bargaining. We can both find numbers spun in different ways, but this was not something he was doing in some valiant struggle to balance the budget any more than the Republicans on a national level actually believe they can eliminate the deficit just by addressing discretionary spending. The deficit is an excuse to get rid of things they don't like.

The pensions are deferred compensation, negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. They aren't a handout. In fact, I remember the pro-Wall Street bonus argument being that you couldn't deny or cut the big bonuses for bankers, because that was part of their negotiated contracts, i.e. expected salary. How is this different?

The retention bonuses paid to bankers had already been earned. The proposed changes to WI pensions and healthcare benefits are changes to future benefits not yet earned. Big difference.

Oh that's right. Earned.

Earned in the sense that it was for prior periods not future labor.

Can you share these? Because I've seen it differently but definitely wouldn't want to dismiss either out of hand.

Studies:

Public School Teachers vs. Private School Teachers:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-8.pdf

More Generally, Public Sector vs. Private Sector:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf
http://www.aei.org/docLib/AEI-Working-P ... al-Pay.pdf

There was a Congressional Hearing on the subject yesterday. You can find the opening statements of witness here:

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?op ... &Itemid=26

Also, I'd point out there are a lot of flawed studies out there that underestimate the differences between state & local government employee compensation and private sector compensation by failing to consider the difference between defined benefit pension plans (more common in public sector) and defined contribution pension plans (more common in the private sector).