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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:03 am 
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TEH MACHINE
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jewels santana Wrote:
Getting through that first album is a chore. Something about these guys grates my nerves. On the plus side they remind me how much I like Dylan's voice. I'm wondering if I should continue or leave well enough alone.


Check out this album, Jewels. I've really only been a fan of latter-day Byrds albums that weren't called Sweetheart of the Rodeo. As a Dead fan, I'd wager you'd be more apt to get into this band on this album and the new few that follow.

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The recording sessions for the Byrds' fifth album, The Notorious Byrd Brothers, were conducted in the midst of internal turmoil that found them reduced to a duo by the time the record was completed. That wasn't evident from listening to the results, which showed the group continuing to expand the parameters of their eclecticism while retaining their hallmark guitar jangle and harmonies. With assistance from producer Gary Usher, they took more chances in the studio, enhancing the spacy quality of tracks like "Natural Harmony" and Goffin & King's "Wasn't Born to Follow" with electronic phasing. Washes of Moog synthesizer formed the eerie backdrop for "Space Odyssey," and the songs were craftily and unobtrusively linked with segues and fades. But the Byrds did not bury the essential strengths of their tunes in effects: "Goin' Back" (also written by Goffin & King) was a magnificent and melodic cover with the expected tasteful 12-string guitar runs that should have been a big hit. "Tribal Gathering" has some of the band's most effervescent harmonies; "Draft Morning" is a subtle and effective reflection of the horrors of the Vietnam War; and "Old John Robertson" looks forward to the country-rock that would soon dominate their repertoire. [The CD reissue adds six bonus tracks, including different versions of "Goin' Back" and "Draft Morning," a few instrumentals, and David Crosby's controversial "Triad"; unlisted on the sleeve is a rehearsal outtake which captures comically vitriolic arguments among the band.]

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:24 am 
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frostingspoon

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aiight. I'll give this one a try.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:33 am 
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The Byrds' Sweetheart of the Rodeo was not the first important country-rock album (Gram Parsons managed that feat with the International Submarine Band's debut Safe at Home), and the Byrds were hardly strangers to country music, dipping their toes in the twangy stuff as early as their second album. But no major band had gone so deep into the sound and feeling of classic country (without parody or condescension) as the Byrds did on Sweetheart; at a time when most rock fans viewed country as a musical "L'il Abner" routine, the Byrds dared to declare that C&W could be hip, cool, and heartfelt. Though Gram Parsons had joined the band as a pianist and lead guitarist, his deep love of C&W soon took hold, and Roger McGuinn and Chris Hillman followed his lead; significantly, the only two original songs on the album were both written by Parsons (the achingly beautiful "Hickory Wind" and "One Hundred Years from Now"), while on the rest of the set classic tunes by Merle Haggard, the Louvin Brothers, and Woody Guthrie were sandwiched between a pair of twanged-up Bob Dylan compositions. While many cite this as more of a Gram Parsons album than a Byrds set, given the strong country influence of McGuinn's and Hillman's later work, it's obvious Parsons didn't impose a style upon this band so much as he tapped into a sound that was already there, waiting to be released. If the Byrds didn't do country-rock first, they did it brilliantly, and few albums in the style are as beautiful and emotionally affecting as this. [Columbia's 1997 CD reissue of the album improves on the masterpiece by adding eight strong bonus tracks, including four cuts with Gram Parsons singing lead trimmed from the original release for legal reasons.]

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Last edited by DumpJack on Thu May 26, 2011 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:42 am 
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I'm behind, but I didn't realize how quick the jump was to Sweetheart. I'm real surprised there hasn't been a cash-in reissue with Gram's vocals added back in.

Untitled/Unissued might be their best after all this.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:15 am 
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i didn't mind the notorious as much as the first one. I still can't really get into most of their vocals, but the music had some really cool parts. I think I might be ruined by 90s documentaries where Roger McGuinn is a huge tool talking about how important he was while holding his stupid 12 string. I always picture the dad, and not the 20 something breaking new ground.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:29 am 
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jewels santana Wrote:
i didn't mind the notorious as much as the first one. I still can't really get into most of their vocals, but the music had some really cool parts. I think I might be ruined by 90s documentaries where Roger McGuinn is a huge tool talking about how important he was while holding his stupid 12 string. I always picture the dad, and not the 20 something breaking new ground.


You need to hear the next couple and make a final judgement. Like Gar said, Untitled is a must hear, while I prefer Ballad of Easy Rider and/or Dr Byrds and Mr Hyde.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:30 am 
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
I'm behind, but I didn't realize how quick the jump was to Sweetheart. I'm real surprised there hasn't been a cash-in reissue with Gram's vocals added back in.

Untitled/Unissued might be their best after all this.


I was gonna post that overkill Legacy reissue, but clearly we're not really down with that.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:01 am 
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I'm glad you guys are still doing these, and The Byrds are a really good idea for one to do.

I haven't participated because this really doesn't fit into what I've been listening to lately, and I'm familiar with about half of this stuff with no really strong feelings either way. I've never listened to Turn, Turn, Turn, Fifth Dimension, The Notorious Byrd Brothers or anything after Sweetheart, but I suppose I'd like to check them out, especially this Untitled/Unissued one you guys are talking about.

I'd be interesting to read more actual opinions of the albums here, if people have them. Personally, of the three I have, Younger Than Yesterday is easily my favorite and feels like all the Byrds that I really need. There's other Gram stuff I like more than Sweetheart, and I'm not a big GP fan anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:46 am 
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DumpJack Wrote:
Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
I'm behind, but I didn't realize how quick the jump was to Sweetheart. I'm real surprised there hasn't been a cash-in reissue with Gram's vocals added back in.

Untitled/Unissued might be their best after all this.


I was gonna post that overkill Legacy reissue, but clearly we're not really down with that.


No, no. This is a MUST. If for nothing else than Take A Whiff On Me and This Wheels On Fire.

It's interesting on Notorious how they lapse between middle of the road pop-rock and really good alt country with harmonies.

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harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:34 pm 
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I'll see if I can dig that up tonight, Gar.

Drinky, I'm on full listening to the Byrds and almost nothing else since we started, but since I don't have board access at work anymore it's getting tough to get back home and remember what the hell I listened to 9 hours ago and what my thoughts were at the moment ;).

That being said, I listened to Notorious and Sweetheart again today. Holy shit, do I ever love that former album. I think since I got seriously into the Dead, the latter day Byrds albums have really taken hold. And I found it oddly modern sounding too, but still those unequivocal Byrdsian harmonies make it hard to forget who you're listening to sometimes. One that grabbed me today was 'Tribal Gathering' and 'Draft Morning'.

Sweetheart I liked more today than I normally do. Gram's voice isn't that strong so it gets a little tedious over a long period of time; today it suited me fine although I still can't get really excited about one of the greatest albums of all time.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:14 am 
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Chris Hillman, Gram Parsons, and Kevin Kelley all left the Byrds in wake of the release of Sweetheart of the Rodeo, leaving Roger McGuinn to assemble a new band from scratch. Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde, the first album with McGuinn as unquestioned leader (and sole founding member), was an interesting but uneven set that saw him attempting to bring together the psych-tinged rock of the group's early period with the pure country that Parsons had brought to Sweetheart. The new lineup on this album was as strong as any the band would ever have, with guitarist Clarence White sounding revelatory whenever he opens up, and Gene Parsons and John York comprising a strong and sympathetic rhythm section. But while everyone on board was a great musician, they don't always sound like a band just yet, and the strain to come up with new material seems to have let them down; McGuinn contributes a few strong originals (especially "King Apathy III" and "Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man," the latter written with Parsons before his departure from the group), but the two songs he penned for the movie Candy are just short of disastrous, and the closing medley of "My Back Pages" and "Baby What You Want Me to Do" sounds like padding. Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde proved there was still life left in the Byrds, but also suggested that they hadn't gotten back to full speed yet.

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Last edited by DumpJack on Sat May 28, 2011 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Isn't Untitled the one with a song about falling in love with a horse?


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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Danny Don't Rapp Wrote:
Isn't Untitled the one with a song about falling in love with a horse?


Yeah, 'Chestnut Mare'

"Always alone, never with a herd
Prettiest mare I've ever seen
You'll have to take my word

I'm going to catch that horse if I can
And when I do I'll give her my brand"

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

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One of the greatest debuts in the history of rock, Mr. Tambourine Man was nothing less than a significant step in the evolution of rock & roll itself, demonstrating that intelligent lyrical content could be wedded to compelling electric guitar riffs and a solid backbeat. It was also the album that was most responsible for establishing folk-rock as a popular phenomenon, its most alluring traits being Roger McGuinn's immediately distinctive 12-string Rickenbacker jangle and the band's beautiful harmonies. The material was uniformly strong, whether they were interpreting Bob Dylan (on the title cut and three other songs, including the hit single "All I Really Want to Do"), Pete Seeger ("The Bells of Rhymney"), or Jackie DeShannon ("Don't Doubt Yourself, Babe"). The originals were lyrically less challenging, but equally powerful musically, especially Gene Clark's "I Knew I'd Want You," "I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better," and "Here Without You"; "It's No Use" showed a tougher, harder-rocking side and a guitar solo with hints of psychedelia.


Funnily enough, even as a kid I had this bizarre musical ego where I would claim the Byrds were better than Beatles and I liked them more, even if I only knew about a dozen songs. There's just always been something about their early songs that really resonates with me, especially this album.

It's one of those albums that I have the relationship with where I play it quite frequently, I enjoy it every time I play it, but it'll never be one of those that I would dream of putting on a list of some of my favorite albums of all time. The Byrds were obviously the most influential and one of the first to really blend folk and rock and most of the time they do it better than anyone else, but while this album is really really strong, especially for a debut, I never feel like it has anything that quite puts it over the top like a couple of their others.

Regardless, it's a nice album to pass the time, the cover of "All I Really Want To Do" is one of my favorite ever Dylan covers and "I Feel A Whole Lot Better" is one of the best pop songs of the 60s. It sets the bar high for chiming guitars and might be the ideal place to introduce people to the band, but knowing them and their music, I can't help but be reminded of the great stuff that was to come in the next few years.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:32 pm 
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I want it to be known that I typed that review up after my first listen, but didn't submit it and am on the second listen and i am wrong about everything, its the greatest album ever

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:37 pm 
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contradiction Wrote:
I want it to be known that I typed that review up after my first listen, but didn't submit it and am on the second listen and i am wrong about everything, its the greatest album ever


See, it's funny, I think a lot of people would or should like the earlier iterations of the band more, but the combination of the Gram-myth-Sweetheart, the accusations of being a glorified Dylan cover band and David Crosby's mere presence knock them wholly out of contention for lists of great bands.

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harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:48 pm 
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im gonna give everything 5 stars.

But for real, Sweetheart of the Rodeo falls in and out of my all-time top 10 constantly

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:59 am 
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No album by the Byrds -- at least, among those that weren't originally regarded as well-nigh perfect -- has risen more in some reviewers' estimation in the time since its release than Untitled. True, it always had a following -- and among the later (i.e., post-1968) Byrds albums, it was always the one to own, even if you weren't a huge fan. A double LP issued with two discs for the price of one, Untitled was one of the rare modest commercial successes for the latter-day group, which was understandable, as its 69 minutes of music held a great deal of allure, but the album's sales success was also a result of all of the talent there was in the latter-day group, as well as most of the circumstances surrounding its creation all lining up, for once, in the same direction. The first of the two LPs was a live recording from Queens College's Colden Center, from a February 1970 concert, and it was also somewhat contentious at the time. Some longtime fans -- remembering the fine harmony singing and the carefully articulated playing of the original five-man lineup from the mid-'60s -- didn't care for the approach taken by the 1970-vintage version of the band. It was only in the last decade of the 20th century, many years distant from any version of the band, that some came to accept this recording on its own terms. But then the whole album came into proper focus -- the live rendition of "Eight Miles High," which takes up a full side by itself, is the high point of the whole release, a 15-minute jam that showcases this band's prowess, which extended far beyond Roger McGuinn and Clarence White's playing; the original quintet may have sung better, but could never have done with any part of its repertory what this lineup (McGuinn, White, Gene Parsons, Skip Battin) did on-stage, as captured here. What's more, the rest of that live set isn't to be slighted -- just when it seemed like one couldn't breathe life into "Mr. Spaceman," "Mr. Tambourine Man," or "So You Want to Be a Rock 'n' Roll Star," Clarence White and company do just that, with the added attraction of a first-rate Dylan cover ("Positively 4th Street") plus a new, better than first-rate Roger McGuinn song, "Lover of the Bayou." The latter was a remnant of the musical that McGuinn had been working on with Jacques Levy, a rock adaptation of Peer Gynt to have been entitled Gene Tryp.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:57 am 
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Gonna do some Byrds listening today

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Did you guys skip Preflyte and Ballad of Easy Rider?

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:36 pm 
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This is an interesting listening party idea given all the lineup changes and the fact that the Byrds don't have as big a discography as some of the ones you've done. Still I don't have much interest in playing along myself.

I've never heard any of the post Sweetheart albums. There was just something about the wholesale departures post Sweetheart that made me not bother to check those albums out. Maybe I should, I'm fairly certain that I'd at least like some of the stuff but you can only hear so much. I saw Roger McGuinn do a show last fall that was split 50/50 between an interview about his career and solo performances of his songs and Byrds songs. I pretty much liked all of the material and found it interesting that when asked which was his favorite Byrds lineup he called it a tie between the original lineup and the one with Clarence White on guitar.

My favorite Byrds albums are the first two and its not that close. I still wouldn't put either in my personal top 100 but they probably don't miss by that much. I'm as big a GP fan as there probably is on the board but for my money, Sweetheart is the least interesting GP album and somewhere in the middle of the pack of Byrds albums. I still like it plenty though.

You guys should try doing a producer next or session player next. Albums produced by John Simon? Albums that Duane Allman played on?


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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:44 pm 
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albums featuring michael mcdonald backing vocals

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:46 pm 
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contradiction Wrote:
albums featuring michael mcdonald backing vocals


yah mo be there for that thread!

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:33 pm 
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contradiction Wrote:
Did you guys skip Preflyte and Ballad of Easy Rider?


Yes, I fucked up on that last post. Will amend tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: New Loog and Dumpjack Listening Party of Fail (The Byrds)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:12 am 
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DumpJack Wrote:

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The Byrds' second album, Turn! Turn! Turn!, was only a disappointment in comparison with Mr. Tambourine Man. They couldn't maintain such a level of consistent magnificence, and the follow-up was not quite as powerful or impressive. It was still quite good, however, particularly the ringing number one title cut, a classic on par with the "Mr. Tambourine Man" single. Elsewhere, they concentrated more on original material, Gene Clark in particular offering some strong compositions with "Set You Free This Time," "The World Turns All Around Her," and "If You're Gone." A couple more Bob Dylan covers were included, as well, and "Satisfied Mind" was their first foray into country-rock, a direction they would explore in much greater depth throughout the rest of the '60s.



Like a lot of people my age, my introduction to The Byrds was the inclusion of "Turn Turn Turn" on the Forrest Gump soundtrack. At that time, it was about the best song I had ever heard. I guess in some way, it remains that way.

It's actually pretty amazing how much this band changed over the course of 6 months. I don't know the whole story, so it is entirely possible that the music they were playing through all of 1965 was more like Turn! Turn! Turn! rather than Mr. Tambourine Man, but by looking solely at release dates, the level of maturity and the change in direction between to the two albums is pretty outstanding.

To get things out of the way, as just a solo piece of work - I still enjoy their debut more, primarily because it's a collection of a bunch of the best pop songs recorded during the decade, but the songwriting on this album is stronger, the sound is thicker, and their willingness to really carve their own niche is what makes this album really exciting.

It's slower, there are more instruments involved, or focused on at least. The Rickenbacker is still the big player here, but it's balanced out a little more and more often than not it's being covered in the great harmonies of group. Again, it's not as immediately enjoyable as the debut, but looking at it as a musical statement, as a landmark album, it is the stronger album. I mean one listen to Gene Clark's "Set You Free This Time" will have you wondering how this is even the same band at all. The Dylan covers are no longer attempts at turning great poetry into great pop, but rather they are conveying Dylan's songs into arrangements that are equally as emotional as the originals. I mean c'mon, "Lay Down Your Weary Tune" is some next level stuff and even "The Times They Are A-Changing" keeps an overplayed song relatively interesting.

Crazily enough, one of the songs I've always gone back to and enjoyed is their version of "Oh Susannah", which just blows me away. I mean, I was singing this song in school at age 5, here it everywhere and generally accept it as one of the most known and unnecessarily referenced traditional American songs, but the band makes it seem really important here.

I started this review in an attempt to tell you how it's inferior to their debut, and I think in some regard, it still is. But it's still a goddamn classic album - just in a completely different way.

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