Stu, I think many of those 85% have bought into the American ideal that the Republicans sell so well which is if you work hard enough, you too could be a part of that top 5% or whatever. "We're working to protect the little guy". It goes back to the whole thing Gar was talking about how even at a relatively low income most people can live a comfortable, sustainable lifestyle in this country so why bother making a fuss.

It's all a big shuck and jive. My cousin and his wife are uber-conservative and I know they make less than 100K combined with 2 kids about 2-4 years from college and they consider themselves middle to upper middle class when in fact, they're one lost job and a medical condition away from damn near poverty level.

Definitely. Living without outrageous debt, is the biggest thing. My wife and I got into this mindset after we stepped back and said to ourselves, "its not a race". And, I see what yr saying about one loss away from disaster--but that most people in the country. I think someone who doesn't have tons of debt and an unsustainable lifestyle can weather the storm better. That might be obvious, but it seems like we're foggy in this country to that concept.

50% of Americans and 50% of the voters is a very large numerical difference.

But he's reporting on the Sunday shows where there is, in fact, zero news actually being made.

Although if you were to actually chronicle what happens on those shows every week with a straight news approach, you might unintentionally reinvent political humor.

just so we have this on record:

2010 US Population: 308,745,538
2008 General Election popular votes: 129,391,711 (ages 18+)
2010 Mid-Term Election popular votes: 70,941,029 (ages 18+) - 23% of total US population

You forgot to add in the number of A. Eligible voters and B. Registered voters.

That the Netroots and the Tea Party both hate this probably means it's a good deal. Now clean up the tax system/let the BTC's expire and let's move on with the more pressing problems of this country.

Damn. THAT'S GABBY GIFFORDS' MUSIC!!!

The biggest problem here is that most of us who live in Red States (myself included) would openly denigrate the Dumbledores who say, vote for Scott Walker when they're in a GD Union, or fail to understand that abortion is an issue that some people actually consider murder - and have arrived at that conclusion not via Pat Roberstson, but via their own intrinsic beliefs.

And so, if you can't understand your opponent, how can you ever hope to beat him. The questions about "explaining the bill better" or "where can I get real facts" are so simplistic, I think many of you are the exact same as the Pee Party, you just happen to buy whatever your side is selling. There are hundreds of places to get real data and not jut talking points -- you just have to take the time to seek it, but you're as numb, dumb and lazy as those you decry.

This is what I was getting at before - I have a lot of experience influencing public opinion - and it is actually harder and more expensive than probably any of you realize - and its only getting moreso on both accounts.

There no RATIONAL argument that influences people. You have to have a bigger, better, louder more pervasive message that appeals to people on an emotional and/or reptilian level -- and Repubs don't care about lying.

Why do you think Dems won and kept the house in 2006 and 2008? Rahman was pushing them to say or do anything to make it happen. The problem with that approach is that when applied to legislation, you get votes like Ben Nelson's and Mary Landrieu by any means necessary - and since you dragged it out so long and the process was so public, people were repelled.

Just look at Wisconsin and the NY Special to see if it works both ways. In other words: campaigning = easy, governing = hard.

Governing should be hard; this is a country of 300 million people of disparate ethnicities and backgrounds, spread across a large and diverse landscape.

I felt less repulsed by this most recent sham-debate and more a feeling of "yep, this is democracy"

It's going to be awesome to see the ongoing degeneration of White People as they sink further into the minority.

See what I said about people being afraid of change. This will get worse before it gets better. Because it's not about the debt ceiling, or even change. Its about the false memory of a time when when white people governed for white people. It's still the same - rich people govern for rich people.

Or as you would say - Rich is Strong, Poor is Weak, and the government works door who pays their salaries.

Right. Plus, for all the people who supported and voted for Barry (myself included), you had to know that there was going to be a rather serious backlash/reckoning. Hell, I thought it would be worse and I see some pretty fucked up anti-Barry shit out there in the world.

I didn't realize it was a crime to ask for a list/one-stop site that lists what this administration and Congresses have "accomplished" and laws that have been passed since 2009. Those of you who follow politics more closely or are actually in the politics business would obviously know where to find a resource like this. Are there better resources than:
http://obamaachievements.org/list
http://goo.gl/upVsn

Yes, thank you, that's brilliantly put forward indeed. Erich Fromm and Alinsky... great places to start (and see #3 below).

1. It's easy to get elected and hard to govern? Reagan and Nixon governed effectively (and I opposed them deeply). Poppy Bush and Clinton governed. FDR and LBJ governed, and accomplished great things to further justice. What's hard? To be really hungry living in the shadow of Whole Foods, to have kids and worry about losing your job, to be one paycheck away from living on the street, to have sharp pain in your gut and having no health insurance... etc. etc.
2. Fundamentalist consumerism and fundamentalist religion isn't a choice, they potentiate each other in the American corporatist miasma that is all of our home. The SUV/Box Store religions of the evangelicalban teach that raising up to Jesus and naming and claiming your blessings mean that it's your birthright to buy cheap crap at WalMart and let your girls try to look like Paris Hilton as long as they stay girlie and PTL. Go to Wednesday prayer meeting, walk down the aisle to (briefly) cry for revival and then go home to watch reality TV and eat cinnamon rolls after midnight. It may sound like I am elitist about these Brothers and Sisters, but I love them. I understand how this deadens the fear and pain. I don't know how to change things for them or even if it's any of my fucking business.
3. Foundational to the analysis of the AlterNet piece, or rather an answer to the inevitable question of "how did they (the elite) accomplish this/where is the struggle placed?" , for me, is found in the critical theory of Jurgen Habermas: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/habermas/

Venceremos, and until we do we "do" every day in our own lives. "The only real revolution is of the cell, everything else is a prison revolt." Sade in The Persecution and Assassination of Jean-Paul Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis de Sade, Peter Weiss

Bookmarked.

One thing to also keep in mind (and I'm probably the guiltiest one today) is that once a president or leader passes into history, and the hagiography begins, we lose sight of just how hard many of the accomplishments actually were. Shit, FDR got the entire New Deal thrown out, tried to pack the court, lost and then came out with the Next New Deal. And that was all after basically 40-50 years of populist organization, union organization, and 2 huge financial collapses.

I guess what I am saying is that in the present we see the trees, in the past we see the forest. And in the future we either see a beautiful forest where things are better, or a forest on fire where Bambi's mom is being shot and gutted.

And the weird thing is, I knew, as most of you all knew, the debt "deal" would happen, before it was even an issue.

interesting article

I read it, and while it's enlightening, it has a bit of a conspiracy bent. But has the corporatocracy trained me to dismiss things as conspiracy before looking at the truth behind them? I don't know anymore.

Yes, we automatically discount an examination if it seems like "a side with an agenda" produces it; i.e. they are paranoid, do not pay attention. I think it's useful to understand that some of this analysis is not about "powerful white men (the Illuminati, the International Bankers, the Jackson Hole/Hilton Head Trilateral Commission retreats...)." It's simply descriptive of what happens in social/cultural reproduction. It's as though a medical scientist looks at the expanding tumor (the steamrolling power of privilege and wealth) and thinks what protocol/medicine can attack the pathogenic metastasis.

Here's another thing that most people don't really grasp - it's not really a conspiracy in that 12 dudes are going "this is how we silence these fuckers and keep our money." It is more of a consistent funding for research, and dissemination of ideas that can produce positive outcomes.

Google ALEC, and then check your state's laws against the laws they right to be "model" legislation.

Then kill yourself.

sure.

their annual meeting starts tomorrow in New Orleans. Can we at least get Tanner and DannyDon'tRapp to add a little something special in their food/drink that just might give them bloody diarrhea?

Here is their formula for acheiving "Model Legislation"

I heard a thing on Fresh Air last week about those guys.

Will it enrage me if I listen to it? I don't really need to be angrier right now.

Skip it then.