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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:48 pm 
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paper Wrote:
but at the same time it's pretty cynical to immediately shit on someone for supporting a good cause like Stopping Kony. Admittedly I have never heard of the guy until Tuesday, so they must be doing something right...


This. I think the whole thing is pretty incredible.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
My parents do things here locally--taking sandwiches to the soup kitchen and the like so its not like they are totally off the volunteering wagon.

And FWIW, I'd like to check out another Habitat group sometime. That one we worked with was just SO over the top with their adoration for Habitat and their higher ups and whatnot. It was fucking weird.


My uncle is the head of habitat for Macon, GA, and I feel pretty sure that he's not over the top about his adoration for it, and I doubt he's ever sang Kumbaya. Not sure how far that is from you, but just saying if you're looking for one that isn't so zealous. I understand about what you mean though, I want to help, not listen to other people talk about helping.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
paper Wrote:
but at the same time it's pretty cynical to immediately shit on someone for supporting a good cause like Stopping Kony. Admittedly I have never heard of the guy until Tuesday, so they must be doing something right...


This. I think the whole thing is pretty incredible.


I agree with this to an extent. I am surprised that so many people never heard of this guy before, but than again I did study International Relations and keep up with this sort of thing. I think that it's important that people know what's going on in the world, if only so that politicians can't just make up their version and have everyone believe it.

Not really sure that there is anything that the U.S. can do in this situation, and the situation has changed from what the video showed, but I can't really see it in such a cynical light.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:18 pm 
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I get the feeling that most of the people who are making this video a sensation have not only never heard of Kony, which is understandable, but that they had no idea African children were systematically being stolen, drugged up and turned into killing machines. Or that Kony isn't the only warlord who does this.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:23 pm 
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mutty Wrote:
I get the feeling that most of the people who are making this video a sensation have not only never heard of Kony, which is understandable, but that they had no idea African children were systematically being stolen, drugged up and turned into killing machines. Or that Kony isn't the only warlord who does this.


I find ignorance of this sort of stuff baffling.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
My parents do things here locally--taking sandwiches to the soup kitchen and the like so its not like they are totally off the volunteering wagon.

And FWIW, I'd like to check out another Habitat group sometime. That one we worked with was just SO over the top with their adoration for Habitat and their higher ups and whatnot. It was fucking weird.



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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:00 am 
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while I actually want to see the good in this campaign, I think that at the end it doesn't matter if people know this guy. It doesn't matter if people wear braceletts and put stickers everywhere. It's just a strategy that doesn't work for more than people sending money to that organization. For this particular problem of child soldiers in africa I think even money wouldn't help that much.

A friend sent me the link to that video and even though her opinion of it was ambivalent, she finds it basicallya good thing. I asked her if this video had changed anything for her beside now knowing the name of that guy and this organization and she said "no, but I think it's a good thing". girls... ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:34 am 
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berliner Wrote:
while I actually want to see the good in this campaign, I think that at the end it doesn't matter if people know this guy. It doesn't matter if people wear braceletts and put stickers everywhere. It's just a strategy that doesn't work for more than people sending money to that organization. For this particular problem of child soldiers in africa I think even money wouldn't help that much.

A friend sent me the link to that video and even though her opinion of it was ambivalent, she finds it basicallya good thing. I asked her if this video had changed anything for her beside now knowing the name of that guy and this organization and she said "no, but I think it's a good thing". girls... ;-)


It would be good if people acted on it, made it an issue. Not Kony per se, but the U.S. supports governments that have a history of using child soldiers. If it could be made into an issue where America put pressure on those countries to stop that practice it would be good, wearing bracelets doesn't matter but making it an issue during an election year and having it affect votes would. I don't have much hope that this would happen, but that is one way that awareness could affect outcomes.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:16 am 
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Leon Wrote:
berliner Wrote:
while I actually want to see the good in this campaign, I think that at the end it doesn't matter if people know this guy. It doesn't matter if people wear braceletts and put stickers everywhere. It's just a strategy that doesn't work for more than people sending money to that organization. For this particular problem of child soldiers in africa I think even money wouldn't help that much.

A friend sent me the link to that video and even though her opinion of it was ambivalent, she finds it basicallya good thing. I asked her if this video had changed anything for her beside now knowing the name of that guy and this organization and she said "no, but I think it's a good thing". girls... ;-)


It would be good if people acted on it, made it an issue. Not Kony per se, but the U.S. supports governments that have a history of using child soldiers. If it could be made into an issue where America put pressure on those countries to stop that practice it would be good, wearing bracelets doesn't matter but making it an issue during an election year and having it affect votes would. I don't have much hope that this would happen, but that is one way that awareness could affect outcomes.


what kind of support would that be? troops? "nation building" by external powers hasn't been too successful yet. as far as I understood the international court of justice already searches for him, for years. that's the only way in my opinion. it may be good that it's public now for this work.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Kony better be careful, or he could wind up supplanted by his protogee.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:54 pm 
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My biggest qualm with all the people who are naysaying the campaign is that a)they all are saying the same thing and b)there is no alternative or even a remotely positive avenue to go elsewhere.

The loudest people are people who have never posted anything to do with human rights previously. I find it interesting that those that are in opposition are putting down people for posting a link--in yet, that is the very thing they are doing! Posting anti-Kony2012 links.

There are cries of lazy activism, but how is something lazy when they were at zero previously. Sure, its easy to repost a link. Its easy to order posters, etc. But when you're coming from sitting on your couch/desk/wherever previously--its a positive step. A step that statistically some will continue to follow. Not all. Not even a large majority. But some.

You know its easy to be cynical. But when you talk to a group of middle schoolers who are talking about world issues instead of whatever normal crap their into, its pretty hard to be cynical.

I think Shaun King put it best this week, "Shut up or do something". Meaning, either you make a difference and do something for this world--or shut up when others are doing something. It might be imperfect, but its doing something to try to better the world and raise awareness.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:11 pm 
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berliner Wrote:
Leon Wrote:
berliner Wrote:
while I actually want to see the good in this campaign, I think that at the end it doesn't matter if people know this guy. It doesn't matter if people wear braceletts and put stickers everywhere. It's just a strategy that doesn't work for more than people sending money to that organization. For this particular problem of child soldiers in africa I think even money wouldn't help that much.

A friend sent me the link to that video and even though her opinion of it was ambivalent, she finds it basicallya good thing. I asked her if this video had changed anything for her beside now knowing the name of that guy and this organization and she said "no, but I think it's a good thing". girls... ;-)


It would be good if people acted on it, made it an issue. Not Kony per se, but the U.S. supports governments that have a history of using child soldiers. If it could be made into an issue where America put pressure on those countries to stop that practice it would be good, wearing bracelets doesn't matter but making it an issue during an election year and having it affect votes would. I don't have much hope that this would happen, but that is one way that awareness could affect outcomes.



what kind of support would that be? troops? "nation building" by external powers hasn't been too successful yet. as far as I understood the international court of justice already searches for him, for years. that's the only way in my opinion. it may be good that it's public now for this work.



No, I mean that it would be good if the people made this an issue, and insisted that America doesn't give military aid to armies that use Childern Soldiers.

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:36 am 
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mutty Wrote:
I get the feeling that most of the people who are making this video a sensation have not only never heard of Kony, which is understandable, but that they had no idea African children were systematically being stolen, drugged up and turned into killing machines. Or that Kony isn't the only warlord who does this.


this has been going on for years

ask mr. eko

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:40 am 
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Flying Rabbit Wrote:
My biggest qualm with all the people who are naysaying the campaign is that a)they all are saying the same thing and b)there is no alternative or even a remotely positive avenue to go elsewhere.

The loudest people are people who have never posted anything to do with human rights previously. I find it interesting that those that are in opposition are putting down people for posting a link--in yet, that is the very thing they are doing! Posting anti-Kony2012 links.

There are cries of lazy activism, but how is something lazy when they were at zero previously. Sure, its easy to repost a link. Its easy to order posters, etc. But when you're coming from sitting on your couch/desk/wherever previously--its a positive step. A step that statistically some will continue to follow. Not all. Not even a large majority. But some.

You know its easy to be cynical. But when you talk to a group of middle schoolers who are talking about world issues instead of whatever normal crap their into, its pretty hard to be cynical.

I think Shaun King put it best this week, "Shut up or do something". Meaning, either you make a difference and do something for this world--or shut up when others are doing something. It might be imperfect, but its doing something to try to better the world and raise awareness.


I think you're missing the point.

The world's problems won't be solved by t-shirts, buttons, bracelets and posters. A measured reading of history would probably indicate that, more often than not, these things create problems. This is the issue many have with the campaign. Just because middle school kids are now discussing this and their self-righteous elders are responding with 'yes, we must do something! let's throw money at this problem!' doesn't make it OK. Crowdsourcing is fun, and yay, we get to wear cute shirts and seem like we're helping the world to all of our Facebook friends, but realistically, what is this all going to achieve? Do you not realize the negative outcome that may occur?

Instead of sitting there and saying 'hey at least they're doing something', maybe you should understand the history of the region a little bit better and realize the consequences all of this may have. Oh, and question the intentions.

Also, I know it's 'popular' and 'cool' to post about all of the 'work we're doing for human rights', but many do it silently, and don't feel the need for a pat on the back. You should keep that in mind dude.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:19 am 
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on the other hand, awareness is the first first step in a call-to-action



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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:21 am 
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Dalen Wrote:
I think you're missing the point.

The world's problems won't be solved by t-shirts, buttons, bracelets and posters. A measured reading of history would probably indicate that, more often than not, these things create problems. This is the issue many have with the campaign. Just because middle school kids are now discussing this and their self-righteous elders are responding with 'yes, we must do something! let's throw money at this problem!' doesn't make it OK. Crowdsourcing is fun, and yay, we get to wear cute shirts and seem like we're helping the world to all of our Facebook friends, but realistically, what is this all going to achieve? Do you not realize the negative outcome that may occur?

Instead of sitting there and saying 'hey at least they're doing something', maybe you should understand the history of the region a little bit better and realize the consequences all of this may have. Oh, and question the intentions.

Also, I know it's 'popular' and 'cool' to post about all of the 'work we're doing for human rights', but many do it silently, and don't feel the need for a pat on the back. You should keep that in mind dude.


I'll play devil's advocate.

1. What is the "negative outcome that may occur"? (And is that truly enough to offset any possible positives?)

2. Again, if FR were to do further research into the region, what are the consequences of this that he would discover?

3. You suggest he should "question the intentions" so what do you believe the intentions are here?

4. If you truly believe in something, and you believe the cause needs all the help it can get, why would you support it "silently"? Can you effectively join a fundraising cause while telling no one about it?

Understand that I'm just going after/trying to clarify some of the broader viewpoints you seem to espouse here. Hardly anyone on my Facebook has posted anything about Kony as far as I know, and I really don't know/haven't read much about it except a little bit from critics who claim that there are some issues with that video. And please don't tell me to "go research it" further. I'm interested in getting a little more clarification on your take here, Dale, and maybe anyone else who feels like they're in line with your thinking on the points I alluded to in my questions above. I haven't reposted any links or pledged any kind of support to anything regarding this issue, but I find it kind of interesting that I first heard about it by way of backlash. To me, that lends some credence to what FR is saying about cynicism.

Basically, there's a different issue in a different part of the world that I've been becoming more aware of (kinda been shoved down my throat lately, but w/e), and I really have no idea what to do about it at the moment. I mean I know of a few charities I could give to - and probably will - but I certainly wouldn't mind if it were a popular topic on Facebook, etc. and people at large were talking about it. Even if some video was circulating that was a little misleading and maybe promoting the "wrong" charity (not the most efficient or effective or whatever), it would still mean that more people are aware of an talking about it. The backlash to this Kony thing, to me, does feel a lot more like "don't bother me with this" than "you're going about this the wrong way". I've seen some people, but very, very few, promote alternate charities as alternatives but still encourage people to get involved in some way.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:42 am 
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i still haven't watched the video

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 Post subject: Re: Stop Kony! We need your money now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:43 am 
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i haven't either


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