NFL 2011/2012

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:02 pm

Payton's not being "fined" anything. Coaches just get a bum rap in the CBA (coaches suspensions are also not subject to appeal). If they weren't such misanthropic company men they'd strike for better conditions.

Stop Breathin' · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:07 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Payton's not being "fined" anything. Coaches just get a bum rap in the CBA (coaches suspensions are also not subject to appeal). If they weren't such misanthropic company men they'd strike for better conditions.

I intended to put fined in quotation marks, too. Referring to lost salary, of course.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Payton's not being "fined" anything. Coaches just get a bum rap in the CBA (coaches suspensions are also not subject to appeal). If they weren't such misanthropic company men they'd strike for better conditions.

are the coaches even part of any union? typically people in supervisor or management positions are not.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:17 pm

rogneeb Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Payton's not being "fined" anything. Coaches just get a bum rap in the CBA (coaches suspensions are also not subject to appeal). If they weren't such misanthropic company men they'd strike for better conditions.

are the coaches even part of any union? typically people in supervisor or management positions are not.

not in the players union, no, but the nature of their contracts is covered in the CBA (or at least that's what i heard)

Stop Breathin' · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Beautiful take, from my viewpoint, of Payton vs. Goodell

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:07 pm

Bill Parcells hasn't coached a playoff win since 1998 and has only one career playoff win without Bill Belichik. He might be the most overrated coach in the history of the league.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:20 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Bill Parcells hasn't coached a playoff win since 1998 and has only one career playoff win without Bill Belichik. He might be the most overrated coach in the history of the league.

Parcells is the mirror image of Tom Flores? & is Jim Plunkett an example of a different Phil-osophy?

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:56 pm

Interesting.

saint · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:28 pm **Posts:** 4271

Rick Derris Wrote:

saint Wrote:

i think the saints coaches are complete jackasses. no doubt. the bounty program is meaningless, we all know that, but litigation risk talks. HOWEVER, someone explain how belichick's cheating is not worse than this?

2 reasons. Timing and lying.

No doubt Spygate was an affront to the integrity of the game, but ultimately the players still had to make the plays. Did it give them an edge? Of course but once they were caught they were pretty open and disclosed lots of the tapes (for the most part) eventually. Don't forget that the Pats lost a 1st rounder because of that and Belichick was fined 500K. The single largest fine to a coach to date in NFL history.

Bountygate happened at a time when concussions and player safety are at the forefront of NFL issues after a contentious CBA. Also, as Bloor pointed out, they openly lied at every turn about it. This was an issue of causing bodily harm for money. Not an image the NFL wants and everyone knows they protect the shield with everything they've got. The punishment had to be severe enough that John Q. Public understood that the NFL would not tolerate this.

If any plays were dirty, they would have been penalized. So, I disagree that this bounty led to any more injuries than any other game. That's a complete joke.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:58 pm

saint Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

saint Wrote:

i think the saints coaches are complete jackasses. no doubt. the bounty program is meaningless, we all know that, but litigation risk talks. HOWEVER, someone explain how belichick's cheating is not worse than this?

2 reasons. Timing and lying.

No doubt Spygate was an affront to the integrity of the game, but ultimately the players still had to make the plays. Did it give them an edge? Of course but once they were caught they were pretty open and disclosed lots of the tapes (for the most part) eventually. Don't forget that the Pats lost a 1st rounder because of that and Belichick was fined 500K. The single largest fine to a coach to date in NFL history.

Bountygate happened at a time when concussions and player safety are at the forefront of NFL issues after a contentious CBA. Also, as Bloor pointed out, they openly lied at every turn about it. This was an issue of causing bodily harm for money. Not an image the NFL wants and everyone knows they protect the shield with everything they've got. The punishment had to be severe enough that John Q. Public understood that the NFL would not tolerate this.

If any plays were dirty, they would have been penalized. So, I disagree that this bounty led to any more injuries than any other game. That's a complete joke.

In the case of the high/low hit on Favre (the one where afterwards there is audio of a Saints player yelling "pay me my money") in the NFCCG was later determined by the league that a flag should have been thrown.

Also, have you heard about this Sean Peyton email thing:

Quote:

When general manager Mickey Loomis (also suspended for eight games, making Loomis the first GM in league history to earn a suspension) told Payton in 2010 that the organization was being investigated for the bounty program, the report suggests that Payton went to Williams and Vitt before their interviews with the league's security and told them to " … make sure our ducks are in a row." It doesn't appear that Payton was interviewed as part of the investigation at that time, but when he denied all knowledge of the program in a 2012 interview with the league, they showed him an e-mail from 2011 in which Payton added a very expensive postscript: "PS Greg [sic] Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers [sic]." The message refers to Aaron Rodgers, who the Saints were about to play in the NFL's opening game of the season. When presented with that evidence, Payton admitted he was referring to the Packers quarterback.

Ohg, weeg can'k spellg.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm

timmyjoe42 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:56 pm

Gah! I can't believe the Bengals traded Keith Rivers to the Giants for a 5th round draft pick.

FT · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:00 pm

timmyjoe42 Wrote:

Gah! I can't believe the Bengals traded Keith Rivers to the Giants for a 5th round draft pick.

even worse, they signed terrence "i couldn't cover a crib-sized mattress" newman

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 3:18 pm

Dern. Goodell dropped the hammer today:

Saints player suspensions:

Jonathan Vilma - Full season
Anthony Hargrove - 8 games
Will Smith - 4 games
Scott Fujita - 3 games

They must've had some cold, hard, and vicious evidence on Vilma.

Z · **Joined:** Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm **Posts:** 7979

Rick Derris Wrote:

Scott Fujita - 3 games

this one sort of surprised me.

while reading about this, i learned that fujita has a master's degree in education. i wonder how many other nfl players have a master's.

Flying Rabbit · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2012 10:47 am

Reports coming in that Suggs tore his Achilles playing basketball. Nothing is confirmed, but if true...

Flying Rabbit · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2012 12:59 pm

Suggs is saying its a partial tear. Saying he'll be back in October/early November definitely.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2012 1:21 pm

Rick Derris Wrote:

Dern. Goodell dropped the hammer today:

Saints player suspensions:

Jonathan Vilma - Full season
Anthony Hargrove - 8 games
Will Smith - 4 games
Scott Fujita - 3 games

They must've had some cold, hard, and vicious evidence on Vilma.

This may have been released and I just haven't seen it, but do they have hard evidence of:

Coach puts hit on player from opposing team
Saints player makes an ILLEGAL hit on said player
Said player is injured?

Stop Breathin' · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2012 4:01 pm

Senator LooGAR Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Dern. Goodell dropped the hammer today:

Saints player suspensions:

Jonathan Vilma - Full season
Anthony Hargrove - 8 games
Will Smith - 4 games
Scott Fujita - 3 games

They must've had some cold, hard, and vicious evidence on Vilma.

This may have been released and I just haven't seen it, but do they have hard evidence of:

Coach puts hit on player from opposing team
Saints player makes an ILLEGAL hit on said player
Said player is injured?

I've never seen it. That's what makes us Saints fans so angry. Nary a flag.

saint · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:28 pm **Posts:** 4271

Stop Breathin' Wrote:

Senator LooGAR Wrote:

Rick Derris Wrote:

Dern. Goodell dropped the hammer today:

Saints player suspensions:

Jonathan Vilma - Full season
Anthony Hargrove - 8 games
Will Smith - 4 games
Scott Fujita - 3 games

They must've had some cold, hard, and vicious evidence on Vilma.

This may have been released and I just haven't seen it, but do they have hard evidence of:

Coach puts hit on player from opposing team
Saints player makes an ILLEGAL hit on said player
Said player is injured?

I've never seen it. That's what makes us Saints fans so angry. Nary a flag.

EXACTLY, Loog. That is my point.

mutty · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2012 11:29 pm

Not really defending the suspensions, and don't know any particulars about the case, but intent to commit is still a crime

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 12:43 pm

mutty Wrote:

Not really defending the suspensions, and don't know any particulars about the case, but intent to commit is still a crime

I don't necessarily buy that there was intent. You have to try to do something to have intent. Now maybe the coaches actually were trying to, but if the players weren't, then why the suspensions?

mutty · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 6:57 pm

What I'm saying is that they don't need hard evidence of "Saints player makes an ILLEGAL hit on said player, and said player is injured?" According to Goodell's logic, a suspended player could have simply TRIED to hit a guy with intent to injure beyond the norms of the game, in hopes of fulfilling bounty.

Between this and Junior Seau this week, I'm starting to think this is the beginning of the end for football as we know it.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

Leaving aside any criminal issues, intent to violate a policy of one's employer could certainly lead to discipline, and regularly does. However, as someone who does internal investigations/compliance for a living, something like this would be pretty difficult to prove. I'd want solid evidence to support such a finding, especially in a union environment. I'd want written admissions by the accused or at least a few credible witnesses.

shiv · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 5:12 pm

NFL 2011/2012

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