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 Post subject: Prior and Hill for Tejada and Bedard?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:02 pm 
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I didn't feel like finding the hot stove thread, but supposedly this is waiting approval of Angelos. Don't know how I feel about this proposed trade.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:03 pm 
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Cubs giving up way too much to get what they don't need. Best lineup does not win championships as has been proven with, oh, I don't know, the last umpteen world series in a row.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:06 pm 
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I would not be too hot on this trade.
Keep the pitching.
The lineup is already shaping up with the additions of Pierre and Jones.
Good speed.
With Lee hitting like a monster.
And solid pitching.

They could be good.

But please, dear God, do NOT trade Prior.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:06 pm 
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Tend to agree with you, but injuries is one reason why I would consider it. The Cubs have a great staff but they never play at the same time.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:07 pm 
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This screams of a desperation move by the Cubs to appease dissatisfied fans who are clamoring for ANYTHING major to get done


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:08 pm 
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Spade Kitty Wrote:
This screams of a desperation move by the Cubs to appease dissatisfied fans who are clamoring for ANYTHING major to get done


Agreed.
But I have the feeling that it'll piss off more fans than it would please.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:13 pm 
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I have a deep love for Prior and it would kill me to lose him but I don't think it's as awful as it seems.

Todd, Jock Jones is not an upgrade in the OF offensively.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:15 pm 
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Spade Kitty Wrote:
Cubs giving up way too much to get what they don't need. Best lineup does not win championships as has been proven with, oh, I don't know, the last umpteen world series in a row.


You're right, best team does.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:16 pm 
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PopTodd Wrote:
The lineup is already shaping up with the additions of Pierre and Jones.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This game re-creation illustrates my thoughts on the clubs line-up pretty well: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... ned_jones/

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:26 pm 
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right nowq, it doesnt seem horrible, since Prior hates the idea of pitching when healthy...

perhaps if he gets that out of his system, he'd be the pticher everyone says he could be...

but for now, to get a Tejada...thats an awful lot of ribbies not to consider.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:29 pm 
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Jones is a replacement for Burnitz's numbers (if he can even hit that well), that's about it. Pretty mediocre hitter, pretty good fielder. .250 average over the last two full seasons, with 23 home runs per year. You can get that kind of production from almost any outfielder nowadays...

As for Pierre, very good baserunner, pretty damn good hitter, bad defender, pretty horrid OBA for a leadoff hitter last year (.326?!??!?). I'd say it's a mixed blessing at best.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:32 pm 
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I like Pierre at the top of the lineup. Big improvement over last year. But yeah I agree on Jones.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:34 pm 
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to be fair, Podsednik's '04 OBP was .313 and he greatly improved it last season...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:34 pm 
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shmoo Wrote:
PopTodd Wrote:
The lineup is already shaping up with the additions of Pierre and Jones.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This game re-creation illustrates my thoughts on the clubs line-up pretty well: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... ned_jones/


Oh shit, is that the Lovely Ladies?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:44 pm 
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NOTHINGFACE Wrote:
but for now, to get a Tejada...thats an awful lot of ribbies not to consider.

that is if they ever get anyone on-base ahead of him...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:34 pm 
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shmoo Wrote:
PopTodd Wrote:
The lineup is already shaping up with the additions of Pierre and Jones.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This game re-creation illustrates my thoughts on the clubs line-up pretty well: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... ned_jones/

I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS FOR THE PAST 3 DAYS. THANK YOU<3

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:37 pm 
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i would hate to trade away pitching. but, if bedard is in the deal, i say do it. yes, prior has potential, but he hasn't had one full season yet. and it's the Cubs trademark to stick with people because they have potential (hello, korey patterson). the lineup as is, is good, not great. having a lineup where you have d-lee, a-ram, tejada - that's scary

also, the bullpen is strengthened. that's huge. if no work was done on the bullpen, then this trade would make no sense. there are rumors of also having zito in some package, and there are other pitchers cubs can try to get (millwood, washburn i believe).

so, IF and only if the cubs manage to get a pitcher in this deal, and/or trade/sign another above average pitcher, then i'm fine with this. i like prior a lot, but if you take the emotion out of it, i think it makes sense.

and jacques jones is not good

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:55 pm 
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I love the idea of Mark Prior, the dude is sick. However, he may never be a totally healthy pitcher. WHile Bedard may not be either, I wager that he could give a team 85% of what Prior could both in stats and in quality/health. Tejada is such an offensive force and such an upgrade, this team would begin to look like the Yankees of the NL. I say do it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:04 pm 
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I am soooooooo glad Jones picked the Cubbies over my Royals. I'd much rather give Sanders a 2 year deal than Jones a 3.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Spade Kitty Wrote:
Cubs giving up way too much to get what they don't need. Best lineup does not win championships as has been proven with, oh, I don't know, the last umpteen world series in a row.


You've got to be kidding...you wouldn't trade an injury prone pitcher and a slightly above average at best OF'er for an MVP shortstop with the O's best starter thrown in. Bedard doesn't have the same upside as Prior but given Prior's injury history, I don't think it would be shocking if Bedard ended up having the better career. This trade would be a disaster for the Orioles and I've read that they aren't willing to do the deal with Bedard involved unless they get a top prospect back.

Another version of this trade has

Tejeda going to the cubs
Prior & Corey Patterson going to the Redsox
& Manny Ramierez going to the O's

That would seem to make more sense, but my personal guess is that Tejeda and Ramierez aren't traded.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:27 pm 
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I'm not buying too much into this either. The O's have never been high on giving up on Bedard; I think Ramirez can veto a trade, and there is no reason he'd come to play in Baltimore, especially if Tejada leaves; and the O's went out and got that catcher from San Diego because he and Tejada are best friends, godfathers of each other's children, best men at their weddings and all that shit.

The O's are so terrified of giving up a young pitcher. I don't see them doing it.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:28 pm 
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dr winston o'boogie Wrote:
Spade Kitty Wrote:
Cubs giving up way too much to get what they don't need. Best lineup does not win championships as has been proven with, oh, I don't know, the last umpteen world series in a row.


Another version of this trade has

Tejeda going to the cubs
Prior & Corey Patterson going to the Redsox
& Manny Ramierez going to the O's

That would seem to make more sense,


I think the Orioles are allergic to pitching.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:40 pm 
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Billy, I don't think "O's best starter" is ever gonna be a compliment


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:47 pm 
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6-8 with a 1.38 WHIP? Who cares if he has almost a strikeout an inning, that's mediocre as fuck


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:46 pm 
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dr winston o'boogie Wrote:

Another version of this trade has

Tejeda going to the cubs
Prior & Corey Patterson going to the Redsox
& Manny Ramierez going to the O's



There was another version in the paper today of:

manny and jon garland to the orioles
tejada to the cubs
bedard to the white sox
prior to the red sox

they said it was basically a pipe dream though.

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