is more than "pretty good" your criteria for HOF. Everyone you mentioned but maybe blyleven and morris isn't deserving.

I don't think Glavine is very close to HOF material. In my opinion, Clemens, RJ, and Madduxx are the only starters nearly retirement that are deserving. What happened to your best of all-time, not best of this generation argument...or do you make an exception for your own generation of players.

He's got some great offensive numbers and was an above average/very god outfielder.

Here's a blurb from Rob Neyer on Raines

No, I was saying how can you think Blyleven and Jim Rice (or whoever) IS HoF material, and not think Morris is?

Glavine has that old intangible: HE's a fucking winner. And he may yet get to 300 wins.

I don't think you're going to convince anyone with WARP.

So, if Raines isn't a Hall of Famer, is Lou Brock?

Dale Murphy, Jim Rice and Sabermetrics don't belong in the Hall of Fame either.

Rice belongs in the hall because I want him there. If I didn't want him there, he wouldn't belong.

Blyleven had more wins, complete games, shut outs, K's, WHIP and a much better ERA.

I don't think you're going to convince anyone with WARP.

So, if Raines isn't a Hall of Famer, is Lou Brock?

I'd say Brock is considering 3000 hits, 1600 runs and 900+ SB's (5 times in the top 10 of MVP voting)

We should ignore certain statistics because they're newer and not well known? What kind of music do you like?

Blylevin is the ultimate stat guy's hall of famer. A collector of stats that made his solid career look much better in retrospect than it actually was like Rafffy. And neither belong in the hall.

Since 1900, Bert Blyleven ranks 5th in career strikeouts, 8th in shutouts, and 17th in wins.
There are only eight pitchers who rank in the top 20 in wins, shutouts, and strikeouts. Here is the list:

Wins SO SHO
Bert Blyleven 17th 5th 8th
Steve Carlton 6th 4th 13th
Ferguson Jenkins 19th 11th 17th
Walter Johnson 1st 9th 1st
Gaylord Perry 12th 8th 14th
Nolan Ryan 8th 1st 6th
Tom Seaver 13th 6th 6th
Don Sutton 8th 7th 9th

Ryan is the only pitcher who ranks higher than Blyleven in all three categories. That's right, there is only one pitcher in the history of baseball who has more wins, strikeouts, and shutouts than Blyleven. There are thousands of pitchers who rank below Blyleven in these three important measures, including tens of Hall of Famers and a half dozen -- Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Catfish Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal, and Jim Palmer -- who had overlapping careers.

Blyleven ranks in the middle of these six pitchers in ERA+ (the ratio of the league's ERA to that of the pitcher, adjusted for the effects of the home ballpark). The calculation is as follows: lgERA divided by ERA, where > 100 is above average and < 100 is below average.

ERA+
Bob Gibson 127
Jim Palmer 125
Juan Marichal 122
Bert Blyleven 118
Ferguson Jenkins 115
Jim Bunning 114
Catfish Hunter 104

As detailed, Blyleven's career totals exceed all of the pitchers in the table above and his Adjusted ERA is better than Jenkins, Bunning, and Hunter. But let's not stop with this group of pitchers. Bert's stats, in fact, are indistinguishable from the eight most similar pitchers who have already been given their day in upstate New York:

Don Sutton (914) *
Gaylord Perry (909) *
Fergie Jenkins (890) *
Robin Roberts (876) *
Tom Seaver (864) *
Early Wynn (844) *
Phil Niekro (844) *
Steve Carlton (840) *

* - Signifies Hall of Famer
Source: Baseball-Reference.com

IP H ER BB SO HR ERA ERA+
Blyleven 4970 4632 1830 1322 3701 430 3.31 118
Group Average 4974 4541 1800 1429 3263 434 3.26 115

Blyleven's counting stats and ERA/ERA+ are almost identical to the average of these eight pitchers across the board. However, his rate stats for the three areas most controlled by the pitcher are slightly better than this exclusive group.

BB/9 SO/9 HR/9
Blyleven 2.39 6.70 0.78
Group Average 2.59 5.90 0.79

As we have all been taught along the way, "with privileges come responsibilities." Those writers who have been entrusted to vote for the Hall of Fame need to take the time to examine Blyleven's credentials. I have read and heard many convincing cases over the years "FOR" Blyleven and am still waiting for someone to present a strong case "AGAINST" him. Oh, sure, I know about those critics who claim that "Blyleven didn't win a Cy Young Award or finish in the top ten often enough" or "Blyleven wasn't a dominant pitcher in his era" or "Blyleven was no better than Tommy John or Jim Kaat and neither of them are in the Hall of Fame."

Well, I've got responses for all three in Bert Blyleven For Hall of Fame: Answering the Naysayers. I urge all voters who have yet to mark an "x" next to Blyleven's name and those who are sitting on the fence to read that column as well as Only the Lonely: The Hall of Fame Trials and Tribulations of Bert Blyleven. If these articles don't do the job, I can only say that I wish you success in booting out of Cooperstown every player not named Aaron, Alexander, Cobb, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Grove, Hornsby, Johnson, Mantle, Mathewson, Mays, Musial, Schmidt, Speaker, Wagner, and Williams because your Hall of Fame is a lot smaller than mine.

Dale Murphy, Jim Rice and Sabermetrics don't belong in the Hall of Fame either.

And I had at least two Dale Murphy jerseys as a kid. I have no beef with Tim Raines, either, but he's not a Hall of Famer. He had a hell of a career, and he should sleep well at night, but if he wants to get into Cooperstown, he can buy a ticket like the rest of us.

Glavine has more wins but is below him in most other categories plus Glavine has always pitched for good teams whereas Blyleven pitched for some real stinkers over his career. Blyleven is a much better candidate imo than Morris or Glavine. I'd put Blyleven in but I really don't have a huge problem with none of them making it. I can see the argument that in addition to being consistently very good for a long period of time, you need to be one of the very best (top 2 or 3?) for a short period of time. I'm not sure any of these guys really pass that test.

Keith Olberman (on Dan Patrick's radio show) made a really compelling argument for Murphy being in the Hall the other day as have a few other. I dunno, I try not to think about it because of the whole boyhood idol thing--its hard to separate fact from reality and that's not how these things should be done. I do know that he won two MVP's while playing for the shitty Braves and was the best player in the game for a (short) stretch. It just went from "Holy fuck" to "You suck" so fast...which is what actually happened to players before steroids.

Glavine was the best if not the second best pitcher in baseball from 1991-93; he won 20 games 5 times in an era where nobody wins 20 games, two Cy Youngs in an era where Maddux won all the Cy Youngs and a World Series MVP. I'd have taken him in his prime to win me a big game over virtually any pitcher from the 90's with the exception of Pedro.

Edit: Glavine's numbers

Also, Murphy came out and played every damn game, like Ripken, just not as long.

Yeah he's better than I'm giving him credit for...I'm impressed when I look at his stats and compare him to other players from the same era. I guess I just thought how can he be one of the best two or three pitchers in the game when he often wasn't even the best pitcher on his team. I also have a strong american league bias so even when he won the CY Young in 1998, I tend to think of him at best the third best pitcher that year behind Clemens and Pedro.