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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:13 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Yail Bloor Wrote:

Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
I raise the same special interest money for Dems, Reps, and Indies.


Really, you work in politics? You never mentioned that before. You should laud some of your achievements sometime.



We won 6 races on Tuesday night. And none of my dumbshits lost because their message sucked or because they didn't have enough money. :cheers:

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:23 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
Of course, unless Healthcare costs go down drastically for a majority of Americans, and access is improved for the 50-60 million without coverage, it will be an albatross on the Dems akin to Watergate on Repubs for the foreseeable future: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/11 ... ses-rates/


Quote:
This was, of course, one of the initial hazards of taking on health care reform: Now Obama owns the entire system in the public's mind, even if they don't understand it


This is the truth and I and I'm sure you have already anecdotally heard ALL about it from folks. I know I have an I'm in contact with roughly 1% of the people you are.

(I'd point out that Watergate was really only an albatross on the GOP for about four years but I'm just a dummy)


Well, I think that if it really reduces the deficit, and people start to see benefits, they can actually take some credit for some shit in the next couple of years, ya know?

The deal with HCR isn't so much about healthcare, it just became this sort of prizm through which all problems could be projected. So, if you hate the deficit, you hate healthcare. If you hate entitlements, you hate healthcare, etc. And there was no good answer -- especially for Dems where we come from.

This is an email between me and another guy (I won't tell you what he does for a living, because I don't want to offend your sensibilities, but suffice to say he's not a storage consultant).

LooGAR Wrote:
The fact that they spent a year and a half on healthcare instead of constantly talking jobs is exactly what Jerry Nadler said it was: malpractice.

And then dummies like Bright and Gene Taylor and Spratt and Marshall thought they could fly under the radar. They shoulda cut a deal to not vote for Nancy Pelosi in the first place - even if it was only for Kabuki aspects. And, Blue Dogs should have gone nuts on healthcare, holding press conferences daily against it, they should have insisted that the tax cuts in the stimulus were "decoupled" and passed as it's own tax cut, and insisted the Bush cuts be extended, and let the Senate gut the 250k+ cuts. And the stimulus should have been referred to as "job creation" and instead of the amount of money, they should have gone around talking about the # of jobs. But instead, they did basically nothing but vote against legislation that their party passed - making them look like the ineffectual dweebs and fake tough guys that they are.

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Garage Band
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
And the stimulus should have been referred to as "job creation" and instead of the amount of money, they should have gone around talking about the # of jobs.


The problem with this is that they didn't create enough jobs...and the "money spent" issue doesn't go away, it gets worse because the opposition counters with "You spent $X per job" and "X" will be an obscenely big number.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:42 pm 
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I've tried to remain engaged in the political process but as a liberal Democrat living in Jesusland it remains a ever constant source of frustration.

I don't have the answers and I know how the game works but I still find it so depressing to watch the state I love so much continue to reward incompetence.

GA Repubs have controlled the Governor's mansion and both houses of the General Assembly for the past 8 years where we've seen corruption, lax environmental conditions, higher poverty rates, some of the highest unemployment rates in the Union, an education system that is failing at almost every level, and very little industry has been brought in.

How did voters react to this:

Relative landslide victories for Republicans who now own every statewide office.

I try not to think about it. Thanksgiving with the country relatives should be fun this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:53 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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ShamWow! Wrote:
Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
And the stimulus should have been referred to as "job creation" and instead of the amount of money, they should have gone around talking about the # of jobs.


The problem with this is that they didn't create enough jobs...and the "money spent" issue doesn't go away, it gets worse because the opposition counters with "You spent $X per job" and "X" will be an obscenely big number.


And that's why Republicans all over the Midwest that voted against the stimulus went to announcements for the roads or whatever they were building.

But think about it - they needed a fancy name. New Deal, Fair Deal, Great Society...Stimulus. The best marketers in the world, who sold America on a black president, and this is the best thing they could come up with?

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Whiskey Tango
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

The deal with HCR isn't so much about healthcare, it just became this sort of prizm through which all problems could be projected. So, if you hate the deficit, you hate healthcare. If you hate entitlements, you hate healthcare, etc.


I was in a jewelry store a couple weeks ago getting a watch battery and the owner and a couple are talking about how you now have to pay sales tax if you sell your house because of Obamacare; Now the specifics of this are a lot different than they were presenting it but I hadda go home and google the goddamn thing just to get the real story. And in addition, I also got that this was a GOP talking point used to hammer Dems on the trail.

My dad is having a problem with the supplemental insurance he has in addition to Medicare (I believe its called Medicare Advantage). The problem isn't with the insurer or the Piedmont hospital system (which likes to play fuck-a-round with the insurance companies every so often), nope, the problem is Obamacare. And this is a guy who HATES insurance company's because of what they do to the little guy and how they jack up their rates every year and make it impossible for small business people to understand what it is they've got. But no, Obamamcare.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Whiskey Tango
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Pretty interesting quote from David Frum back in the Spring when HCR passed:

Quote:
Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. … No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage?


Food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:18 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 am
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Location: a worn-out debauchee and drivelling sot
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Really, you work in politics? You never mentioned that before. You should laud some of your achievements sometime.


How bout dis, lil niiiii?

Don't hate the player, hate the game

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:07 pm 
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Whiskey Tango
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Really, you work in politics? You never mentioned that before. You should laud some of your achievements sometime.


How bout dis, lil niiiii?

Don't hate the player, hate the game


Nice! Your list of Haters should be growing daily.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Go Platinum
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Pretty interesting quote from David Frum back in the Spring when HCR passed:

Quote:
Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. … No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage?


Food for thought.



This is key and something easily forgettable. We elect people to do things and pass legislation we like not just to get re-elected. Sure, for me and other of my ilk the healthcare bill did not go far enough, but it is a big change and something we've been clamoring for for decades. This congress may not have played the re-election game well by taking all of these issues on, but they got things done. And, in the end, that is why we send people to Washington. So sure, I'm pissed and bothered by the election. But, the bottom line is some historic legislation got passed by this congress and even after a landslide, Obama is still in a better position than many of his democratic fore bearers in that he at least has his party controlling the senate. All in all not a bad coupe of years, even if I'm still bitter at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:08 pm 
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frostingspoon
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nobody Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Pretty interesting quote from David Frum back in the Spring when HCR passed:

Quote:
Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. … No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage?


Food for thought.



This is key and something easily forgettable. We elect people to do things and pass legislation we like not just to get re-elected. Sure, for me and other of my ilk the healthcare bill did not go far enough, but it is a big change and something we've been clamoring for for decades. This congress may not have played the re-election game well by taking all of these issues on, but they got things done. And, in the end, that is why we send people to Washington. So sure, I'm pissed and bothered by the election. But, the bottom line is some historic legislation got passed by this congress and even after a landslide, Obama is still in a better position than many of his democratic fore bearers in that he at least has his party controlling the senate. All in all not a bad coupe of years, even if I'm still bitter at the moment.



Plus, if they hadn't passed HCR, most of the same folks would have lost anyway. And, there aren't a bunch of homeless former Congressmen begging for change in DC & PG County. If anything, they end up doing quite well for themselves after life in office.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:07 am 
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Failed Reunion
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

Well, I think that if it really reduces the deficit, and people start to see benefits, they can actually take some credit for some shit in the next couple of years, ya know?

The deal with HCR isn't so much about healthcare, it just became this sort of prizm through which all problems could be projected. So, if you hate the deficit, you hate healthcare. If you hate entitlements, you hate healthcare, etc. And there was no good answer -- especially for Dems where we come from.




Why did Bush and his Republican Congress love Medicare Part D then? I'm baffled that voters actually think the Repubs will reduce the deficit at all. They are the borrow and spend party.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 56,00.html

Well said in this piece.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:09 am 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Pretty interesting quote from David Frum back in the Spring when HCR passed:

Quote:
Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now. … No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage?


Food for thought.


Agreed. The health care bill is not going anywhere. If that's all the new republican house fights for, they are a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:04 am 
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Whiskey Tango
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Saint Wrote:

Why did Bush and his Republican Congress love Medicare Part D then?


This actually occurred to me last night: Before (or in addition to) repealing HCR I'd like to see this Congress debate elimination of Medicare Part D, which unlike the HCR, nobody even tried to figure out how to fund. They just passed the fucker.

If there were still journalists in this country (not PR people and teleprompter readers), they might ask Messrs. Boehner, McConnell, Cantor or especially Demint about this. I'd love to hear their answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:26 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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I'm shocked it took this long for Alabama Democrats to shit the bed

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Saint Wrote:
Agreed. The health care bill is not going anywhere. If that's all the new republican house fights for, they are a joke.


They are a joke and it's damn near impossible to get ANYTHING done in Congress because of:

Diggity Dawg Wrote:
Has anyone else read the "budget balancing exercise" article in the last Esquire?

Best argument for term limits I've seen in a long time.


I admittedly haven't read up on the pros/cons of term limits, so I hope someone will enlighten me, but it only seems logical that to end the never-ending election cycle term limits should be passed, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:07 pm 
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:


Talk about narrowcasting. Not for the message, but for the legibility of the call.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:15 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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discostu Wrote:
Saint Wrote:
Agreed. The health care bill is not going anywhere. If that's all the new republican house fights for, they are a joke.


They are a joke and it's damn near impossible to get ANYTHING done in Congress because of:

Diggity Dawg Wrote:
Has anyone else read the "budget balancing exercise" article in the last Esquire?

Best argument for term limits I've seen in a long time.


I admittedly haven't read up on the pros/cons of term limits, so I hope someone will enlighten me, but it only seems logical that to end the never-ending election cycle term limits should be passed, no?


If you think it's never ending NOW.....


Also, Term Limits give more power to lobbyists than anyone else - because they are the only ones who know the rules and the issues.

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Rape Gaze
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:


dude looks like he just rolled out of bed.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:18 pm 
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none of the newly empowered repubs are serious about deficit reduction. most have a recent track record that is over the top borrow and spend. to the extent that they take defense spending off the table from any cost cutting, they are utterly contemptible.

i also want to know where they are going to cut when they attempt to make the bush cuts permanent. how does anyone believe a fucking word they say?


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:14 am 
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Quote:
Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

... I'm just sayin'...

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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:44 am 
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Go Platinum
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Saint Wrote:
none of the newly empowered repubs are serious about deficit reduction. most have a recent track record that is over the top borrow and spend. to the extent that they take defense spending off the table from any cost cutting, they are utterly contemptible.

i also want to know where they are going to cut when they attempt to make the bush cuts permanent. how does anyone believe a fucking word they say?


Depends on which ones...there are some younger repubs that have been entering party leadership over the past few years that seem like they are actual believers in small government. For example, it was really the younger republicans that defeated the initial Wall Street bailout voting against their own President. That's not to say that I'm not still skeptical. It will be interesting to see how the Tea Party favorites operate once they get into power though.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:47 am 
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Go Platinum
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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
discostu Wrote:
Saint Wrote:
Agreed. The health care bill is not going anywhere. If that's all the new republican house fights for, they are a joke.


They are a joke and it's damn near impossible to get ANYTHING done in Congress because of:

Diggity Dawg Wrote:
Has anyone else read the "budget balancing exercise" article in the last Esquire?

Best argument for term limits I've seen in a long time.


I admittedly haven't read up on the pros/cons of term limits, so I hope someone will enlighten me, but it only seems logical that to end the never-ending election cycle term limits should be passed, no?


If you think it's never ending NOW.....


Also, Term Limits give more power to lobbyists than anyone else - because they are the only ones who know the rules and the issues.




Gar's on the right track in giving the argument against. It's as much about political/policy staff and bureaucrats though as lobbyists. I still am all in favor of term limits though personally.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:49 am 
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Oh and this is as good a place as anywhere to say I really miss Firing Line. Someone should bring that back. I don't know who the conservative/repub would be but i think Robert Reich would be a good pick for the liberal team leader.


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 Post subject: Re: Generic political thread: 2010 midterms
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:09 am 
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billy g Wrote:
Oh and this is as good a place as anywhere to say I really miss Firing Line. Someone should bring that back. I don't know who the conservative/repub would be but i think Robert Reich would be a good pick for the liberal team leader.


Only if the first episode featured Reich in a position like this:

Image

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